Diana Alt [00:00:04]:
Hey, Diana Alt here. And this is Work Should Feel Good, the podcast where your career growth meets your real life. Each week I share stories, strategies and mindset shifts to help you build a work life that works for you on your terms. Hello, hello and welcome to Work Should Feel Good, the show where your career growth meets your real life. I'm your host Diana Alt and today my guest Kelly Green and I are going to dig into all things resilience. Kelly is a certified health and wellness coach who focuses on helping professionals cultivate holistic resilience through health coaching and psychotherapy. Kelly's a recovering attorney, having practiced law in Tennessee for over 15 years. A few years ago she realized that she'd rather help clients as a health professional than a legal professional and returned to college earning a master's degree in psychology from Harvard University.

Diana Alt [00:01:04]:
She's licensed to practice psychotherapy in Tennessee and has additional training and credentials and things raising ranging from safe and sound protocol to hypnosis to the enneagram, giving her a broad toolkit to address physical and psychological health challenges with her clients. Kelly is a born teacher and serves as a part time master's program lecturer in forensic psychology. She also does workshops of all kinds, including one we're going to hear about a little later. And I've done a couple Kelly's workshops in the past on topics, so you do not want to miss out that opportunity if you're interested in her topic. Welcome to the show. Kelly, how are you?

Kelly Greene [00:01:45]:
I'm good and I apologize for my voice. I am recovering from bronchitis so I'm a little scratchy. But, but that was.

Diana Alt [00:01:57]:
Do you have some tea in that mug that we saw earlier?

Kelly Greene [00:02:01]:
I have something hot. It's not coffee, it's decaf coffee. But yeah, it, it will help and only just minor update I will make to that awesome intro. Thank you for the awesome intro. Is that I am pending licensure as a psychotherapist. So I am practicing psychotherapy as I am allowed to as I am pending licensure. But I will be pending licensure for quite some time until I have enough hours for full licensure.

Diana Alt [00:02:34]:
All right, well thank you for straightening that out. There's a lot of. It's so interesting how different different fields are. Oh yeah, because like there are fields when like medicine, psychotherapy, etc where you have to have every dot every I dotted in T cross, I almost crossed my T's and cross my eyes and dotted my TE's. And then there's other ones where like I'm a coach. I mean, I have some certifications, but I coached for like seven years before I ever got a certification.

Kelly Greene [00:03:09]:
So licensure pro processes are so different even for different professions within the state. It was easier to get a law license. Super easy to get my law license. I mean, obviously you had to take the bar, pass the bar. Beyond that, not really difficult. It is more difficult, in my opinion to get my psychotherapy license than it was ever to get my law license.

Diana Alt [00:03:31]:
How do you think about, how do you feel about that? Does that seem right?

Kelly Greene [00:03:34]:
No, it's really frustrating. I'm not gonna lie. And I don't know if, if I am frustrated from a. I think it's too much on the therapy side or I think it's too less on the law side. Right. Probably somewhere in between where we. You probably needed a bit more from a clinical, you know, a practical standpoint to get your law license than you did because really you only had to have taken the bar, you know, have a jd, Pass the bar.

Diana Alt [00:04:06]:
The bar, and that's it. Right?

Kelly Greene [00:04:08]:
You know? Yeah, pass the background check and all that and you get a license. Whereas in therapy you still have to have your coursework, you still have to pass tests, and then you have to have thousands of clinical hours before you can get a license.

Diana Alt [00:04:22]:
So how many thousands? Tell me about.

Kelly Greene [00:04:26]:
I know for marriage and family therapists it's 1000 clinical hours plus 2 or 300 supervision hours for licensed professional counselors, which is a different purview. You have to have, I believe it's 3000 clinical hours or 1500. Yeah, I think it's closer to 3000. It's crazy.

Diana Alt [00:04:48]:
But for law, you basically have.

Kelly Greene [00:04:52]:
You don't have to have any, you don't have to have done an internship. Now I did before I had my law license. I did an internship and actually practiced on a temporary license before I received my law license, but that wasn't required. But anyway, wild stuff.

Diana Alt [00:05:08]:
Crazy.

Kelly Greene [00:05:09]:
That was a long time. I know.

Diana Alt [00:05:10]:
And like. Well, you think about medicine, people are like gray haired by the time they get done with all of their residencies and post fellowships and all the things. So it's funny because I'm having surgery in July and when you look at a surgeon's background and you realize like they're the same age as me, but they've only been really been like a full surgeon for like 12 years because it took for freaking ever. So anyway, well, congratulations on doing all of that. And guys, when you hear like 3,000 hours, that's not like just assuming 40 hours a week. Right. That is therapeutic hours. Right.

Diana Alt [00:05:51]:
You have to track that many.

Kelly Greene [00:05:53]:
Yeah. So I am doing the marriage and family track because I align with that ideology a bit more because. Because it's a systems. A family systems sort of ideology. And so I need to get a thousand clinical hours and 2 or 300 supervision hours, and that's on top of the internship and practicum I had while doing coursework. So I. I think I have current. Currently I'm at about a thousand hours and I have about 800 more to go.

Kelly Greene [00:06:23]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:06:24]:
Wow, that's so much. Well, so you've done a lot of things. You're a recovering attorney.

Kelly Greene [00:06:31]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:06:33]:
You worked in title, you worked in business law, you worked in entertainment law. Just in that you also have other things, like. I used a makeup brush earlier today that you designed or marketed or something.

Kelly Greene [00:06:47]:
Yeah. So that's my first.

Diana Alt [00:06:50]:
What led you, like, what led you to wander through so many career paths and feel comfortable trying them? So many people feel like they have to do this thing forever.

Kelly Greene [00:07:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. I. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that I've never had that feeling of like, this is it like that I have to do this forever. But I started my career in makeup and it was just kind of by happenstance, you know, I got a job at a makeup counter. I loved doing makeup. It was so much fun. It was in my 20s, and I just grew in that industry and became a pretty successful hair and makeup artist.

Kelly Greene [00:07:35]:
I wasn't a cosmetologist, so I wasn't cutting and coloring, but hair and makeup artist in the music industry here in Nashville for about 10 years. And I did that while I went to law school. So while I was doing hair and makeup, I traveled all around. I've been to most award shows doing hair and makeup backstage. And I, I loved it. It was so much fun. It was a great, you know, 20s career. I did that from, you know, 20 to 30ish.

Kelly Greene [00:08:05]:
And it was fantastic. I knew it was not. It, it. It fed the creativity part of me, but it did not feed the intellectual part of me. So I knew it was not the final frontier for me. But. But it was. It was freaking awesome.

Diana Alt [00:08:22]:
Yeah. It was so wild. I feel like I've never been good at makeup. And I finally got good. Decent. We'll call it decent. Not good at doing my makeup because of tick tock. Because how many get ready with me? I'm like, oh, I.

Diana Alt [00:08:39]:
I finally learned how to contour based on like repeated exposure to a million. And the, the thing that was the light bulb for me is something somehow I got on the side of Tik tok where it wasn't 22 year olds doing the makeup, but it was like 48 year olds saying like this is what you need to do because you are not, you don't have the skin you did when you were 22.

Kelly Greene [00:09:03]:
So it's true.

Diana Alt [00:09:04]:
Super wild stuff. So did I miss any career paths that you went through? Because like hair and makeup law, I.

Kelly Greene [00:09:12]:
Mean those are the millions of kind. I've had crazy jobs. I was, I like to call myself the temporary or substitute sanitational engineer for my high school. That means that I was the janitor for a moment in high school. You know, I've had a, I've had crazy jobs, a thousand crazy jobs and. But those are the, the career pieces are makeup law and psychology.

Diana Alt [00:09:43]:
Wow. What led you. So like 20, 21, you and I were in a master run together because you had this brilliant plan that you were going to do this online legal course and community and all the things and then in the middle of the year you just decided to burn it down.

Kelly Greene [00:10:01]:
I burnt it.

Diana Alt [00:10:04]:
So can you tell us a little bit about. This is the kind of thing that like you and I have known each other for a long time, so I was kind of walking with you through a lot of this burn it down thing. But so many people are terrified of that because you know, really, it's sunk cost fallacy if you get down into it. But talk about the decision to burn it down and, and to rebuild because you're basically a career phoenix right now with your new law, sorry, your new psychotherapy health coaching thing. What happened to you emotionally and then what was going on practically when that decision to change came about.

Kelly Greene [00:10:48]:
I'll give you a teeny tiny moment of background that led up to that. So throughout from the time I was 12 was when I had my first autoimmune flare up, if you want to call it. We didn't know what it was back then to like these sporadic situations and, or flare ups throughout my adolescence. 20s, 30s, had a baby at 37, was deathly sick at 38. Didn't think I was going to live. I mean just, you know, autoimmune after autoimmune after autoimmune, like really sick for years and years and years. 2020. For me, the easiest thing I endured in 2020 was Covid.

Kelly Greene [00:11:37]:
Right. So that was, that was the easiest part. And I had, I was like, I call Myself, the COVID og, right? I had Covid before there was a vaccine, you know, like I. It went and it was terrible. And I was on my back for 10 days. It was, you know, and that was the easiest part of my 20. 20. 2020 was rough.

Kelly Greene [00:11:58]:
Had some family stuff come up, psychological events that were just terrible, just truly terrible. And I got sick again. Like my body was sick again. And it was the first time in my life that I'd ever thought. I wonder if my physical issues are tied to my psychological events. You know, like life hits too much, stress is too much all of this. And now I'm hurting from head to toe again. Right.

Kelly Greene [00:12:31]:
Yeah, I'd had a thousand diagnoses. So anyway, all that to say is I began a journey 2020, 2021, of. Of understanding who I was, what was happening with me. And I. So during the time that you and I met, I had, I was in that journey, right. I hadn't come to that full realization in that moment. And so I was practicing law. I owned a title agency and a business, entertainment business law firm.

Kelly Greene [00:13:07]:
And I had an idea, just because I've represented a lot of business clients, to do a. A course to teach entrepreneurs how to set their businesses up legally. Because I was doing it for so many people and I wasn't super passionate about it, but I also wanted them to have the information. So that's how you and I met. Right. Because I was trying to learn this online space. How can I get this information out to folks. I wasn't super happy in my legal career, so I thought, well, may.

Kelly Greene [00:13:34]:
Maybe this is the, the switch I need to make, right, is I'm going to put these courses out. All of that to say I read a book around that time. It was in 2020 that I had read the book. I thought I had a copy. I was going to hold it up. I do. Cured and cured by Dr. Jeffrey Rediger.

Kelly Greene [00:13:57]:
He's an assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard. Harvard Med. And in his book he chronicles about a 2025 year fascination of his of studying spontaneous remission. You know, what makes people cure, you know, get cured or get better from chronic or terminal illness. And I'm not ruining it for you because this book's amazing. And he. All these, I mean, there's tons of stories in here. It's fascinating.

Kelly Greene [00:14:30]:
But in short, he was able to identify a connection between identity and autoimmune or identity and immunity in general, anecdotally. But he also mentions, you know, he. He talks about a lot of studies in There all that is the first time I thought, I wonder if what's happening in my body is. Is rooted in maybe childhood or stress or life, you know, beyond my biology. Right.

Diana Alt [00:15:06]:
Spending your life the wrong way.

Kelly Greene [00:15:08]:
Right. Beyond genes. And so I dove in for myself and started reading more about this. And I started not. Not knowing. What I was doing at the time is I was learning to cultivate holistic resilience, which we'll get to. But I started. I got better, you know, physically, my body was feeling better.

Kelly Greene [00:15:29]:
I didn't. Everything was feeling better.

Diana Alt [00:15:33]:
What were you doing, though? Like, what are some of the things?

Kelly Greene [00:15:36]:
I started therapy. Number one thing is I started therapy, and I didn't start therapy because I wanted to deal with my past or because I was physically sick. I started therapy because I just had some life events happen that I needed help with. And it was through that process that I started diving into how I grew up, my past, my tendencies to people. Please. My tendencies to be everything to too many people. And. And so through that realization, I started learning signals in my body that were indications that I was doing too much or not living, you know, in a way that was aligned with where I needed to be.

Kelly Greene [00:16:28]:
So then, then that led me into eating better. Right. Drinking more water. I mean, some of the basic things that, that, that you just sometimes you don't feel like doing when you feel like crap. Right?

Diana Alt [00:16:42]:
Yeah.

Kelly Greene [00:16:44]:
And I started spending more time in nature. I started noticing things that made me experience awe. I started learning how to regulate my thoughts and my emotions. There are just a myriad of. Just things kind of speckled throughout. I started thinking more about meaning and purpose and, and wondering what my. What was meaningful to me and what was not meaningful to me and why it was meaningful or not meaningful. And so there was just all of these different areas of life I just started diving into and working on, and I got better mentally, physically, I felt better and.

Kelly Greene [00:17:31]:
And I knew I just hated practicing law.

Diana Alt [00:17:35]:
What's so interesting about this is you were taking all these steps and at the same time you would go to the office and deal with this law practice that you had that you didn't like. And you were doing title, real estate title as part of your work. Right. Which is a whole nightmare.

Kelly Greene [00:17:55]:
It is a nightmare all night.

Diana Alt [00:17:57]:
So it's the opposite of what I know of you to be very detail oriented, extremely time sensitive, highly emotional for everybody involved, whether it's the purchaser, the seller, the real estate agent. There's so hence drama galore in all of that. And yet you were still making strides. I think that's really important because a lot of people that are in a job that they hate or other major situation that they hate, they get, they let that consume them utterly and there becomes a perspective that we can't do anything about it. The only thing that we can do is what we've always known. But. And you can always drink an extra glass of water, people.

Kelly Greene [00:18:43]:
Yeah. And I will say that I had, I, that that mindset is not foreign to me. Me, I live that. So I, I mean, for many, you know, I've. I practiced law for many, many, many years that I was like, this is it for me. You know, I spent all this time and money to get a law degree. I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to figure out how to love it, make a lot of money or I'm, you know, this is it.

Kelly Greene [00:19:07]:
Like, you can't keep changing your career, Kelly. And then, you know, doing the work that I did on myself, I was like, why not? What. I mean, I was in my 40s. I'm not, you know, I'm feeling there. There were days, especially when my daughter was around a year old. I mean, I, I didn't think I would see her turn too. I was so sick, man. Was.

Kelly Greene [00:19:37]:
Had more than one near death experience. I was not well at all. And, and fast forward to just five, six years later. And I'm. And I'm. I feel like there's no reason I can't live to 100 or beyond. Like, I'm have no fear of dying of an autoimmune disease before she grows up.

Diana Alt [00:19:59]:
Done. That's gone.

Kelly Greene [00:20:01]:
But it's, it's because somewhere in there my, my beliefs changed. And not, not just my thoughts, it was my thoughts, my emotion, my behavior. Like, like I changed at the core level. And, and I realized what does it matter if I change careers again if it makes me healthy and I live another 50 years and so. And I graduate with a PhD at 50, whatever. Who gives a rat's ass? You know, like, yes, fantastic. Good for me. You know, like, what does that matter?

Diana Alt [00:20:40]:
I have a family member that is getting her E.D. d. This summer. She'll be 52 when she gets it.

Kelly Greene [00:20:46]:
Fantastic.

Diana Alt [00:20:48]:
She's, she's like collecting degrees now.

Kelly Greene [00:20:51]:
I love it.

Diana Alt [00:20:52]:
And it's funny because she often felt like she was the dumb child in her family because she just has different aptitudes, her intelligence shows up differently, all those kinds of things. And so now she's going to be the highest degreed person in her whole family, which I think is pretty badass. I love it. I'm here. I'm here for that. I'm a kind of a hold my beer sort of girl. Like, oh, you think I can't? Oh, really? Or you think I shouldn't? I cannot be controlled. I am an enneagram.

Diana Alt [00:21:31]:
Which we'll get into some of that a little bit more in a minute. So. So you burned down the. The whole thing to focus on your new path, and then you went, like, straight for the top. There's no, like, I'm going to do my degree at the state school right around me, which you would have if you hadn't gotten into another school. You just said, hey, we're going to do Harvard. That is something a lot of people are scared to do as well. They think they're not good enough or they think it would be too hard to do that.

Diana Alt [00:22:07]:
What made you have the courage to say, not only am I doing this, I'm going to do it at basically one of the top schools on the planet?

Kelly Greene [00:22:19]:
As I was getting better and learning more about the importance of. Of processing your past, whether or not you feel like it's affecting you or not. And I want. And I was getting better and I was healing and I was feeling good, and I wanted to share that with others. I did not want to be one of the folks. And there's nothing or nothing wrong with this. It's just that they did not speak to me in the way that people who had evidence did. I did not want to be one of the folks that taught out of.

Kelly Greene [00:22:50]:
Purely out of experience. It was really important to me that if I'm teaching you about, you know, how to feel better, how to heal, how to cultivate resilience, how to be psychologically and physiologically strong, that it wasn't just like, this is what I did. And now you followed my five points. You know, that I wanted to. I wanted evidence. I wanted to know the science. Is there a scientific reason for why I was getting sick even though I wasn't? I didn't have, you know, never had clinical signs of depression or anxiety or ptsd. And for all intents and purposes, you would look at me and go, this is not someone who is surviving.

Kelly Greene [00:23:33]:
This is someone who is thriving. You would never look at me and go, there's not a physician on, you know, that I went to for 30 years of autoimmune disease that said, hey, is. Do you think maybe this might be. Have a psychological root? You know, there was never a therapist that I went to and said, gosh, you're sick. Do you think this might have a psychological root? So I needed to go to Harvard because when I wanted to know if there was science out there to support what had happened to me. And so that was reason number one for going to Harvard is because I wanted to go to a school that was so focused on science and research and not just experiential moments.

Diana Alt [00:24:19]:
Right.

Kelly Greene [00:24:20]:
Number one. Number two, I had wanted to go to Harvard since I was a little girl. When I was a little girl, I never dreamed in a million years that I could be smart enough to go to Harvard. Now I always made good grades. I got a full ride into my undergrad program. I knew I was smart, but I never thought I was Harvard smart. I just wanted to go to Harvard. And so I had noticed online when I was researching psychology programs that Harvard had a continuing education department that or school part of their arts and sciences school that allowed folks to do degrees on a hybrid basis.

Kelly Greene [00:25:07]:
So I was able to do part of my coursework all. Now, what is different about Harvard's extension program is that I. It is not all asynchronous. I didn't take any asynchronous courses. So all courses that were online were live. Like attendance was taking. I, you know, you showed up. And then I had to take 12 hours of my courses in person.

Kelly Greene [00:25:33]:
So I had to live on campus for a summer and take courses. But to, you know, it was fun because then, you know, at 40, whatever, I got a Harvard experience, you know, and it was hard. You know, I've since then taken other courses in counseling at other schools at really prestigious local universities. And I can tell you they, they're not as hard as Harvard. So Harvard really is harder. It was hard.

Diana Alt [00:26:06]:
The bar is high because you're surrounded by people that are high. So even if it's not hard, you still want to distinguish yourself among your peers that you're studying with. Well, thank you for sharing that. I remember when you burned it down and then said, I'm going to Harvard, and you had a sweatshirt on. On your social media. It was a very exciting moment. And I, like, I know also is important for your daughter to see that it doesn't matter if you are 18 or 41.

Kelly Greene [00:26:35]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:26:35]:
Or however old you were. You can try to chase this stuff.

Kelly Greene [00:26:39]:
She doesn't get it. She's 10, but she will. I tell we're we're heading later to commencement. And she's like, oh, do I have to go? And I'm like, Listen, I know at 10 you think this is like so boring, but I promise you, when you are 30 and you look back and go, I watched my mom graduate with a master's degree from Harvard University, you're going to think it's cool.

Diana Alt [00:27:03]:
Yeah, yeah. Just give it a couple of decades.

Kelly Greene [00:27:05]:
You're going no matter what. Kid.

Diana Alt [00:27:08]:
I want to switch gears and actually get into this area that you decided to focus on of resilience. And the way I want to go there is to address something that I know has come out of my mouth. I've seen it come out of friends mouths and I think you've even maybe posted on social media some time or another, which is I am so tired of being resilient or why is it always on me to be the strong one and the resilient one? And what I remember, what I think, I think what you and I talked about a long time ago, even before you may have coined this term holistic resilience or started talking about that is it's because everybody doesn't know what resilience actually is, Right? So talk to us about what we get wrong about resilience. That makes us feel like this is sucks. Why do I always have to be resilient? I don't want to do this anymore.

Kelly Greene [00:28:07]:
So I did my graduate research, I did an empirical study on resilience. And so I have consumed enormous amounts of research on this topic. And I feel confident when I say that anyone who says I am tired, I'm too tired, I'm too resilient, I'm tired of being resilient. You know, resilience wears you out. That, that is totally incorrect. And I hear that what they're saying is they're tired. But it's not resilience that is wearing them out. It is perhaps there are several things that it could be.

Kelly Greene [00:28:46]:
Typically it's grit. And let me.

Diana Alt [00:28:49]:
Which also is not understood worth a day.

Kelly Greene [00:28:52]:
And let me say that I am a huge fan of grit. I believe that grit is a component of resilience. But grit is just not resilience. Grit is when you have. Grit is the ability to dive deep. You've got a long term goal and you're able to dive deep and meet that goal even when you're tired, even when you're, you're not feeling it, you've just, you've got the grit to keep going. So grit can be very constructive and it can also be destructive because you can be gritty. You can dive deep and press forward when you really need to.

Kelly Greene [00:29:37]:
Dive deep and lay down.

Diana Alt [00:29:39]:
Right.

Kelly Greene [00:29:40]:
Resilience is very different. Resilience is the ability that when you hit, because let's talk about resilience. Let's take it out of a person and talk about a ball, like a bouncy ball. And I think you've seen this in one of my courses, I play a slow motion video and you see a bouncy ball when it gets. Goes in it and it hits the ground, it. It morphs, it almost flattens out if you're watching it slow motion. And then as it's going back up, it feels. It's that beautiful round shape right back out and it continues on.

Kelly Greene [00:30:17]:
That's resilience, which is when you hit something in your life, whether it is a traumatic event, whether it's adversity, which is hit after hit after hit after hit. Right. That you will absorb the energy of that traumatic impact and you have the resources within yourself to bounce back up.

Diana Alt [00:30:41]:
I think, you know, what I think is really important about that? I thought this whenever I took your workshop where you talked about the bouncy ball. I think it's really important to note that you do switch shapes.

Kelly Greene [00:30:52]:
You do.

Diana Alt [00:30:53]:
Because there's so much of the rhetoric, whether you call it grit, resilience, or something else. There's so much of this idea that you're in, like a stable presentation of yourself. Like you're swallowing whatever is hard and presenting this brave face to the world. And like, I think, I think people really can make these things very destructive when they don't understand them. In particular, grit. Because my. My nieces went to a high school. No, I'm in.

Diana Alt [00:31:32]:
I'm in the Kansas City area in Johnson County, Kansas, pretty fluent area. And they're in one of the good, you know, in a good school district, in a good high school. And they have these different character themes. And grit was one of them. And I swear that they did. They did a very bad job of teaching what it was supposed to be to children of high school age. They may have understood it, it may have just not translated well. But both of my nieces would hear about grit and they would think it means that they just have to go hard forever.

Diana Alt [00:32:06]:
And perseverance is a component of grit for sure. But that is a lot about having a long view. It's not about pushing forward.

Kelly Greene [00:32:15]:
Right?

Diana Alt [00:32:15]:
So, yeah, the changing of shape is.

Kelly Greene [00:32:19]:
The long view, right?

Diana Alt [00:32:20]:
Yes. That changing of shape, that's allowed. Like you're allowed to get knocked in the face and be flat for a minute. But the. What I'M hearing you say is that resilience is about how quick can you get back to the sphere shaped ball and move forward. Is that right?

Kelly Greene [00:32:39]:
Yeah, resilience. All resilience is, is health and wellness being healthy and well, like that's it. So there's no such thing as being. I'm just too healthy. I'm just too. Well, there's no such thing.

Diana Alt [00:32:53]:
Right.

Kelly Greene [00:32:53]:
All resilient, resilience is a result and you're not there. There is no being too resilient because resilience is just facing something hard and having the tools to deal, to deal with it and move on.

Diana Alt [00:33:15]:
Yeah.

Kelly Greene [00:33:16]:
Help me.

Diana Alt [00:33:18]:
So you talk about. Oh, what I was gonna. I had another question about the old model. Who is getting the most screwed by this old view of resilience that's actually some weird combination of like bastardized grit, way too much hustle and way too much tenacity behind a stoic face. So who's getting the most screwed by this in our society?

Kelly Greene [00:33:47]:
I mean, I think everybody is. And I'm going to tell you, I mean, I know because it's such a. It's a waterfall effect, you know, like it's a domino effect because, you know, initially, you know, I would say, oh, it's high achievers, which, you know, I have a passion for high achievers, people pleasers, those sorts of people that, that are just, you know, have this ability to power through and they're getting the most screwed. But really it's everyone because when, when they're not doing well, then everyone they affect and touches is not going to do well. So it's, it's a. I'm glad you.

Diana Alt [00:34:28]:
Said that because I. One of the things that bothers me is like there are definite problems that hit one gender more than other genders. But there's a lot of narrative that some of these things related to grit and resilience are more applicable to women or like it's, it gets painted with the this is for women brush. And we're not focusing on teaching men resilience in many cases.

Kelly Greene [00:35:00]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:35:01]:
Problem.

Kelly Greene [00:35:01]:
Yeah. There's actually a whole body of research on something called skin deep resilience which we can get into that has actually shown that there is less resilience, you know, in, in, in more men even. So I don't concentrate on the gender because I've seen it and there's, you know, research to support lack of resilience in both genders. But.

Diana Alt [00:35:35]:
Yeah, I think there's a safety thing. So my observation. And no, I do not have Harvard University data. I just have 10 years of coaching. My observation is that men often feel less safe to express anything about their struggle. And part of being able to figure out how to navigate the struggle is to be able to name it and ask for help. So, so that's a concern.

Kelly Greene [00:36:08]:
So to that point, I'm going to get into why I call resilience, holistic resilience. And that's going to answer this question.

Diana Alt [00:36:17]:
I was just going to ask you about that. What is it? What the heck is this holistic resilience?

Kelly Greene [00:36:23]:
Holistic resilience is classically. Resilience is defined only psychologically. So for a plethora of studies, when, when resilience has been studied, it is whether or not someone goes through a traumatic event and has anxiety, depression or ptsd. And if they do not have anxiety depress like clinical levels of anxiety, depression or ptsd, then they're considered resilient because period, move on into story.

Diana Alt [00:36:53]:
That's narrow.

Kelly Greene [00:36:55]:
So that's it. But that, that is when, I mean, the plethora of studies, the vast majority of all resilience research is on psychological resilience. Okay, now there is another body of research under a field called psychoneuroimmunology and under this body of research and health psychology as well, that draw correlations between traumatic events, adversity, especially in childhood, but it can be at any age, but especially in childhood. They draw these correlations to adverse physical effects, autoimmune disease, metabolic syndrome, cancer, so on and so forth. Okay, so you've got a body of research that says, hey, when you have all this trauma, it, you know, there's a, a probability that you're going to have these physical, you know, poor physical.

Diana Alt [00:37:52]:
Outcomes, body keeps the score stuff.

Kelly Greene [00:37:55]:
Sort of. Not 100%, but sort of. Okay, that's a. Yeah, we'll just say sort of the, the title works for it.

Diana Alt [00:38:03]:
Sure, I've read the book. I know what you mean.

Kelly Greene [00:38:06]:
So no, so you've got a body of research that says resilience is. If you don't have anxiety, depression and ptsd, you're resilient, then you've got. But we're not, we're not really worried about physical. Or if, if in that research they're looking at the physical component, they're going, oh, and now because you have anxiety, depression and ptsd, now you have also these physical issues. Okay.

Diana Alt [00:38:32]:
Oh, so they don't look at the reverse of. If you heal some of the physical, you can.

Kelly Greene [00:38:37]:
Right.

Diana Alt [00:38:37]:
So they only look at it one way.

Kelly Greene [00:38:39]:
Yeah, for one direction. Yeah. Lots and lots of studies. Then you've got all these other studies that really, that are looking at this as an outcome, right. As physical, adverse physical effects, as the outcome. So when I started doing my research, I was like, okay, I think we're missing something big here. And I, I think from my, you know, consuming research and doing the study that I did, what I believe, and there is more research out that supports this, is that when you have traumatic event, you endure traumatic events, you endure adversity, that you're. You're probably not getting a free ticket out, right? And there are two pathways here.

Kelly Greene [00:39:29]:
It can without, if, without processing those, those traumatic events, the adversity that you endured. And when I mean adversity and traumatic events, I don't always just mean big T, you know, rape, abuse, trauma. I'm also talking about what we would consider complex trauma, which can be neglect, other types of, you know, traumatic experiences. So there are two pathways, right? If you don't, when you, if you go through all of this and you don't process it and deal with it, then you're more than likely either going to have psychological effects, anxiety, depression, ptsd, or you cannot have these and only have the physical effects, which was me.

Diana Alt [00:40:19]:
Okay.

Kelly Greene [00:40:20]:
I never had, I had a pretty traumatic childhood. I never had clinical levels of anxiety, depression or PTSD, but I had autoimmune disease since I was 12 years old. And so there is research on this topic called skin deep resilience, where clinicians and researchers would notice that certain folks would. And it tended to present in, in folks that had overcome. So it was in high achievers, it was in high intellect, where folks would be psychologically resilient, but they would be a physical mess. And so back to your question on. You know, a lot of men won't necessarily. They don't feel comfortable, you know, talking about their emotional issues.

Kelly Greene [00:41:14]:
The, the what, what I am trying to bring awareness to is that you don't have to have any psychological issues.

Diana Alt [00:41:21]:
You don't even. They don't even have to exist.

Kelly Greene [00:41:23]:
They don't even. It's not like you don't have to be anxious and depressed and have PTSD to then be physically sick. You can just be sick. And that sickness can be rooted in traumatic experiences and adversity.

Diana Alt [00:41:40]:
Oh, hot dog. Wow.

Kelly Greene [00:41:43]:
So holistic resilience is being resilient both psychologically and physically.

Diana Alt [00:41:50]:
Okay, so thank you for unpacking that because I've been list like you and I have talked off and on about this and I Think I just had the. And it's only physical for some people. I don't think I realized that's what you were doing. So I'm, I'm really glad I had you on the show today. I learned something from you. So you talk about four H's of holistic resilience. Can you unpack quickly what those four H's are?

Kelly Greene [00:42:19]:
Yeah. So through my own research and consuming again, hundreds and hundreds of studies, themes arose. Right. And so to build resilience holistically, you have to focus on, I call them the healthy four H's, A healthy head, healthy heart, healthy hands. And I explained that and healthy human connections. So healthy head is healthy cognitions. So it is, it is learning how to regulate your thoughts, you know, not having the monkey mind, learning not to overthink, you know, not think worst case scenario. So having healthy, a healthy mind.

Kelly Greene [00:43:03]:
Okay. Healthy heart is what we would, you know, talk about when we talk about our emotion. So learning how to regulate our emotions and spirituality is part of a healthy heart. Spirituality is a huge component to resilience, meaning and purpose, huge component to resilience. Healthy hands. So hands represent the body. And another component to resilience is physically, you know, physical health, activity, being physically active, making sure that you drink enough water, which is tough for me. I have to, you know, really work on remembering that and just, you know, focusing on physical health and then healthy human connection.

Kelly Greene [00:43:52]:
Many studies show that social support is important, but what is the most important is not just that you have someone to call when you need them, is that you have someone who is healthy to call when you need them.

Diana Alt [00:44:05]:
Yes.

Kelly Greene [00:44:05]:
It's not just having, oh, yes, I've got a great, I've got a family that I call anytime I needed anything. But if every person that you call every time you need anything complains about themselves non stop, they're just not a healthy human connection.

Diana Alt [00:44:19]:
Or even if they're not negative all the time, if you feel like somehow you have to manage them a little bit. Like, for example, one of the things that I've talked to people about is they say, well, you know, you're having the surgery in July, is your mom gonna come up and take care of you? And I get along beautifully with my mom, but she's also 82 and she just went through her own bout with breast cancer, which, like, as, as of the last scans anybody had, like, everything is good. But for me, I would almost feel guilty trying to have her take care of me because, like, she's been through some stuff and you see what I mean? So that doesn't necessarily. That's a person that can. That can feel certain needs, but not others.

Kelly Greene [00:45:10]:
Absolutely. She might be a healthy connection for. From an emotional standpoint, but you need also another healthy connection from a physical standpoint.

Diana Alt [00:45:20]:
Yeah. I'm reminded of our friend that had heart surgery two years ago and their sibling lived in Canada. So it's like he needed the sibling for kind of that heart family connection, but he needed an advocate in case something went crazy in the US Based hospital. So I was, you know, entrusted with a job of being a bulldog for similar reasons. So that's a really. Thanks for that example. I want to turn a little bit to the Enneagram.

Kelly Greene [00:45:57]:
Okay.

Diana Alt [00:45:59]:
So first off, a lot of people on the show are not very familiar with the Enneagram. I have. You're the first. I think this is the first episode actually I've talked about it at all. Can you give the really quickie, what the heck is the Enneagram? I sometimes tell people it's the one with the numbers, and then we'll go, oh, yeah, yeah, I know what that one is. Tell us a little bit about the Enneagram.

Kelly Greene [00:46:21]:
So the Enneagram is at its most basic, it's. It's least effective function. Okay. A personality typing tool.

Diana Alt [00:46:32]:
Thank you for the least effective in that.

Kelly Greene [00:46:35]:
Least effective function. Its most effective function is it is a tool of soul development. Personal. Personal transformation development, like lifetime work. So what the Enneagram is, is it. It has ancient origins. And I will not go into the history of it because that is. That is another hour.

Kelly Greene [00:47:02]:
But was a knit from recent. I'll put like since the 70s and 80s when it was introduced in. Into what we know like this.

Diana Alt [00:47:16]:
Right.

Kelly Greene [00:47:16]:
Current culture.

Diana Alt [00:47:17]:
The modern iteration.

Kelly Greene [00:47:18]:
Modern iteration, perfect. The modern iteration. Yeah. Started out with. With just mostly personality sort of typing that. That. That a lot of actually priests would use to. To do counseling.

Kelly Greene [00:47:37]:
Like when a parishioner would come to them, they didn't necessarily teach the parishioner about, you know, hey, you're an Enneagram. Four, you're an eight or you're this. It was. They used it to know how to direct that person through transformation.

Diana Alt [00:47:54]:
Got it.

Kelly Greene [00:47:54]:
You're gonna see my cat, 21, and she gets to do anything she wants.

Diana Alt [00:47:59]:
She can do whatever she wants. What's your name?

Kelly Greene [00:48:01]:
Luna. Luna Maybelline. And so. So on its most basic level, you can type your personality. So what. You know what your personality is? Great. The what? The Enneagram does that. No other personality typing tool does is then it helps you transform out of ego and into wisdom.

Diana Alt [00:48:28]:
I love it and I don't know nearly as much as you because you've done so much study of it and masterminds and all kinds of things. Year long program, if I remember right. The thing that I like about it is that it gets into motivations because people, most of the personality assessments of any kind are based around behavior. They're not based around the why behind the behavior. And I think that's critically important. If I ever invest time in really deep diving into another, let's just call it a thing, not a personality tool, it's going to be the Enneagram. Because I think we do not as a society pay enough attention to the why behind how people. Why people operate the way.

Kelly Greene [00:49:16]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:49:16]:
So you are going to incorporate, you're incorporating the Enneagram and some of your health coaching and therapy work. Yes.

Kelly Greene [00:49:25]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:49:26]:
That actually show up for a person. If a person is kind of new to working with you and they're new to the Enneagram, how does that show up in their work with you as a health and wellness coach?

Kelly Greene [00:49:41]:
Well, I mean I first asked them if, you know, if someone's just not on board with doing Enneagram work, then they're just not on board with it. And we don't. But I explained that it's a shortcut because if I'm able to dial into your core personality motive, what motivates you to do the things that you do and think the things that you think and feel the things that you feel, then then we can get to the healing phase much faster. But if, if you don't want to do it, you don't want to do it.

Diana Alt [00:50:13]:
Right.

Kelly Greene [00:50:15]:
So. But what I do is I start, I don't do assessments. There are assessments out there. There's some really great assessments out there actually.

Diana Alt [00:50:22]:
The problem is.

Kelly Greene [00:50:24]:
Yeah, there didn't used to be. The problem though is no matter how great the assessment is and there are still there, there are great assessments, but they're only as great as you are honest. And when it is asking you about your motivation, the problem is, is that so much of our motivations are subconscious and, and you just don't know. I mean you can be as honest as you believe you are. You know, you can, you can answers honestly, consciously.

Diana Alt [00:50:54]:
Right.

Kelly Greene [00:50:55]:
If there's an unconscious motivation, you're not, you're being dishonest.

Diana Alt [00:51:00]:
It's that you're incorrect.

Kelly Greene [00:51:01]:
So I'm going to give you an example. For Myers Brigg, I took The. My. I. I remember for years, every time I would take the Myers Brigg, I would be an ent. J. Okay, okay. Entj.

Kelly Greene [00:51:18]:
Entj. Entj. Because a lot of times the questions would say, you know, what do you value? Basically, when the questions will say, what do you value? Feelings Or. Or logic. I would say logic. Yes, logic. I value logic. You know, what do you value? You know, organization or just kind of go with the flow.

Kelly Greene [00:51:38]:
I value organization. Now, if you looked at my life, you saw that most of the decisions I made were made out of emotion. And my life was totally disorganized. I was and always have been an enfp. But when I was. The question is, what do you value? I did not understand that you were.

Diana Alt [00:52:01]:
Valuing the thing that you craved that you couldn't.

Kelly Greene [00:52:04]:
Right.

Diana Alt [00:52:05]:
Yeah.

Kelly Greene [00:52:05]:
I didn't understand the. The definition of value. You know, it was like in my heart, I valued it. I wanted. And I wanted to be it. I just wasn't. And so I had mistyped myself forever because I was, you know, being. Putting down who I wanted to be.

Kelly Greene [00:52:24]:
And.

Diana Alt [00:52:25]:
Good point.

Kelly Greene [00:52:26]:
And so Enneagram work is great because you have to dial into motivation and usually the one. Usually not for every number, but usually when you've really land in your number, you kind of don't want it because.

Diana Alt [00:52:45]:
Oh, I was horrified.

Kelly Greene [00:52:46]:
Because your number, you know, because it's kind of all the bad stuff about you. I mean, there's good part. Don't hear me, you know, like. But it. It brings to light, you know, all of. All of the hard parts of you. If you do the work with the Enneagram, then it offers you a path of transformation. You know, Enneagram work has.

Kelly Greene [00:53:09]:
This is. This is your core. Yeah. And this is how you can grow in wisdom and transform and be a better you and other personality. If it's just purely a personality typing tool, it doesn't offer. It's not just about, hey, here's what you're good at, here's what you're bad at. Focus on what you're good at, work on what you're bad at. Thumbs up.

Kelly Greene [00:53:29]:
This is. Yeah, it's deeper spiritual work. Really.

Diana Alt [00:53:34]:
Yeah. I'm nothing of it. And I like you and I. You and I going through it. When I. When I first found out mine, which I originally did from an assessment that I'm sure had the psychometric integrity of a buzzfeed quiz, but later on, when I went and read and really dug into it, it turned out it was right. I came up as an enneagram 8. And our fellow 8, Terry was, like, in the group.

Diana Alt [00:53:58]:
Like, all of us were basically enneagramming during the pandemic in our mastermind. And he puts up, like, all these people that are horrible. He's like, oh, you're an eight. And he didn't tell me he was an eight. Oh, you're an eight. And then he lists off, like, Stalin. He's. He puts Barbara Walters and, like, Mark Cuban later in it, but he just is kind of persnickety, so he leads with the evil dictators.

Diana Alt [00:54:25]:
And then I found out, by the.

Kelly Greene [00:54:28]:
Way, let me just say that, you.

Diana Alt [00:54:29]:
Know, what'd you say?

Kelly Greene [00:54:31]:
Which I would definitely put Stalin the category of beyond eight.

Diana Alt [00:54:35]:
Like, I feel like. I feel like malignant narcissists are hard to type.

Kelly Greene [00:54:39]:
That. That's a different. Different.

Diana Alt [00:54:41]:
They're hard to type. And also, there's no way, like, Stalin typed himself on Enneagram and then told everybody. Like, there's a lot of guessing in that. But I was horrified because so many of the people that the interwebs told me were eights were just awful. And I wasn't necessarily in a great place. I had just left corporate. I was super burned out from trying to be resilient slash gritty. And one of the things I was questioning about myself is that I've always had a contrarian streak to me, and I'm always the one, like, whether you call it devil's advocate, contrarian, like, whatever that is.

Diana Alt [00:55:24]:
Like, I'm not just falling in line with whatever. I'm using my brain. I'm poking at things to look at. If you think this, like, can we inspect this other option over here as well? That's just who I am. And for a long time, that was a problem because people don't like that. Mostly they want you to shut up in color, especially when you're in corporate America. And I was very unhappy. And now I think I could go back.

Diana Alt [00:55:51]:
Not that I want to. I think I could go back into corporate America. And now I know this about myself, and I would know what to do with it. And there was a lot of misconceptions. Like, I was told, oh, well, no wonder you're a control freak.

Kelly Greene [00:56:03]:
And I'm like, am I though?

Diana Alt [00:56:05]:
Well, yes. Like, I was in a really unhealthy place, but that's not what it's about. Like, an 8 doesn't have to have control. An 8 just doesn't want to be controlled. Two totally different things. So, yeah, it's really helpful. And it actually. Looking at the Enneagram actually helped me with therapy, and my therapist didn't know anything about Enneagram.

Diana Alt [00:56:28]:
Like, I taught. I taught him. Yeah, Some stuff about the Enneagram. But I had what was happening in our therapy, and then I had this knowledge I was acquiring. It was kind of like a cheat code. I think it sped some things up. Sped some things up for me. So, anyhow, Very cool.

Kelly Greene [00:56:46]:
I love it.

Diana Alt [00:56:47]:
Well, I'm gonna go into, like, a slow lightning round. I feel like it's never really lightning, but I call it the lightning round. It's not really a lightning round. And then we're gonna let you tell people about your cohort, your resilience cohort that's coming up before we close. So first thing I wanted to know is, what is the worst piece of career advice you have ever received?

Kelly Greene [00:57:11]:
Oh, worst piece of career advice. I. It's okay for everyone to have a day job that you don't like, and you can. You just. You just need to get the hobbies. Get hobbies that you like on the side.

Diana Alt [00:57:32]:
Right. That's like a little bit of the boomer in Gen X belief that if work was supposed to be fun, we wouldn't call it work.

Kelly Greene [00:57:40]:
Yeah, I've heard that many times. And, hey, it's okay that you're in a job that you don't like. Just, you know, just do it. Go. Go do what you need to do at work. Make the money and use the money to play hard, and that's how you'll have fulfillment in life.

Diana Alt [00:57:56]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Greene [00:57:57]:
And, you know, for some people that I. I don't want to say that. That does not work for everyone.

Diana Alt [00:58:01]:
I know people that.

Kelly Greene [00:58:02]:
It works very well for people it works fantastic for. I was not one of them. I have to be aligned. I have to be passionate about what I do.

Diana Alt [00:58:11]:
Yeah. I think also there's a continuum to that. It's not, you know, on or off. So for me, I have a model that I call the four cornerstones of an aligned career. And it's basically, is the work right for you? Are your leaders right? Are your. Is your environment, like, how your work and your life work together? Right? And is the culture right? And all that's amazing. And if you can check all four boxes, that's great, but a hell of a lot of people are never able to fully check all four boxes, and that's fine. But what I tell them is check as many as you can.

Diana Alt [00:58:48]:
If you have to take a job where you're only checking a couple of the boxes, you might want to keep looking instead of just deciding, this is my life now.

Kelly Greene [00:58:57]:
I like that.

Diana Alt [00:58:58]:
And then if there's. If there's just one little, you know, couple little things, then go look outside for that. I also think that another thing I talk about on the skills side is sometimes the thing that you want to do next. The only way for you to build a skill is to do something outside your day job. That's not the same as let's be complacent about your day job. That's just, again, a cheat code. So what is a personal habit you've developed that helps you be successful?

Kelly Greene [00:59:30]:
That helps me be successful? Yeah. I would say meditation.

Diana Alt [00:59:35]:
Same.

Kelly Greene [00:59:36]:
And I. I call it contemplative prayer, but it's the same. You know, it's same thing as meditation, but instead for me, instead of I now I do will do like, guided meditations from time to time, but I do a daily sit where I sit, literally sit, and I empty my mind and my heart. And when a thought comes in, I let it go for 20 minutes, and when the timer's up, I get up, and that's it. It's just. It's just kind of a rest for the brain.

Diana Alt [01:00:11]:
I don't do well. I don't do well with trying to do it with no sound. And this is something I've actually been studying because the surgery I'm having is to remove a pituitary tumor, and they want me to have brain rest. And I'm like, hello, I have a sash that says overthinker behind me. Like, how easy is brain rest gonna be for me? But what I've been learning is things like guided meditations, instrumental music, or doing art, like I'm gonna get my piano, are kind of the counter to the constant thinking that my brain loves to do.

Kelly Greene [01:00:47]:
So I'll talk meditation later, though.

Diana Alt [01:00:52]:
I will challenge myself.

Kelly Greene [01:00:53]:
I will say for eight is a number that it's one of the hardest. And I will say that when I see an 8 actually consistently do a sit, they it's more life changing for them than any other number.

Diana Alt [01:01:07]:
I feel like a gauntlet just got thrown down a little bit. So we'll definitely talk about that. What is something you've changed your mind about recently? Oh, goodness. That's my Adam Grant question. I stole that from his podcast.

Kelly Greene [01:01:23]:
Oh. I mean, I. Lord, I mean, I changed my mind about things all the time. If there's an if, I am always open to having my mind changed. If there is enough evidence to support that. And I can't think off the top of my head of like a thing that I have changed my mind about, but I don't have a problem doing that.

Diana Alt [01:01:56]:
You just think of it as a way of life that you're gathering information and you can change your mind.

Kelly Greene [01:02:01]:
Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Like I'm, it's, I want evidence. I really do. You know, that's, that's a, that's a big deal for me. I, I, it's not like when someone is like, hey, you know, this is, someone will, you know, talk about a diet. Let's say it's keto. And they're like, gosh, I just, it's, I feel the best I've ever felt.

Kelly Greene [01:02:25]:
Keto's the best thing in the world. And I'm like, well, great, I'm not changing my mind on not eating fruit based off that one person. But when I see evidence, for example, in how certain people with certain, like, treatment resistant epilepsy, treatment resistant schizophrenia, bipolar, have had enormous transformative changes by eating a medical keto diet, my mind's changed. Right. On saying, oh, well, keto works for some people. Right. It's not all bad.

Diana Alt [01:03:05]:
There are circumstances where it's good.

Kelly Greene [01:03:07]:
Right. So I'm always open to having my mind changed. I'm just not going to, it's just not going to change on a whim.

Diana Alt [01:03:15]:
Yeah, cool. What is a common misperception that people have about your work as a health coach?

Kelly Greene [01:03:26]:
Is that I'm a cheerleader. And I am, I have unlimited positive regard for my clients. I'm going to start by saying that, and that is kind of cheerleader esque. And I'm really honest with them too. And so I am not. Health coaching is not just a, hey, we're going to show up and talk about your goals. And I'm going to be like, rah.

Diana Alt [01:03:59]:
Rah, you know, did you follow your macros?

Kelly Greene [01:04:02]:
Did you follow. Yeah, whatever you want to do. We're, we're going to, we're going to get down to some, you know, hard topics sometimes. And, and because if you're really serious about moving the needle, I'm serious about helping you get there. So it's not all about cheerleading. So because a lot of people are like, listen, I don't need a cheerleader, I'll get that. I've got that several times. I'm like, don't worry, buddy, no problem.

Diana Alt [01:04:32]:
I think there's a big difference between being a cheerleader and being an encourager.

Kelly Greene [01:04:37]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [01:04:39]:
And I operate on the Dr. Brene Brown. Clear as kind. Unclear is unkind. So I have been blessed in my 40s and now I'm 50. I've somehow got installed better ways to say things that I used to club people over the head with, which is very helpful in my work. So. Well, thanks for going through that and for telling us so much about holistic resilience.

Diana Alt [01:05:07]:
I want to. Now, before we close, I know you're working on a cool new cohort program that you are planning. The first one right now. It's goes live. It starts its first week in a couple of weeks. Tell us about this program and how people can learn more about it.

Kelly Greene [01:05:25]:
Sure. It's called Holistic Resilience for High Achievers coaching program and it's a little different. The classes that you've taken with me in the past have been, you know, like six to eight week. You show up on Zoom and you learn material and that's it. And this is different. It's an actual cohort where it's a coaching program where we're still going to show up on zoom. I'm going to deliver material. I'll record it if you can't come for eight sessions.

Kelly Greene [01:05:53]:
So it's 16 weeks. We're gonna, you're gonna have a Zoom class every other week. And then on the opposite weeks you get a one on one coaching call with me.

Diana Alt [01:06:04]:
Cool.

Kelly Greene [01:06:05]:
And where I teach you in the class. And then we're gonna work on, you're gonna get to pick some areas of where you need to do some more work, you know, personal work on resilience. I've got assessments that I, you know, I give you. We talk about what that is and then on our one on one, we talk about what we need I need to do to help you and what you need to do to help you to cultivate resilience. So that's the difference. It's not just a class, it's just not one on one coaching. You get education because I'm a teacher. You get education and then you get one on one coaching.

Kelly Greene [01:06:42]:
And then there's also a WhatsApp group because it's a cohort. And remember, Healthy human is our number four pillar. And so you. We've got a WhatsApp group. WhatsApp group so that all the folks in the cohort can have discussions whenever they want if you want to. And then I'm going to get in there and answer questions weekly too. But you can build resilience alongside of other healthy humans.

Diana Alt [01:07:07]:
Nice. Well, thank you so much for being on the show this is. You know, when I first decided I was going to start this, I had. I had a list a mile long of people because we know so many high quality people that can help others make work feel good. You're at the top of the list, both because of your wild career transitions and because of what you're actually helping people with in the area of resilience. So I appreciate you coming and I hope everybody has a wonderful day.

Kelly Greene [01:07:40]:
Thank you.

Diana Alt [01:07:42]:
Want some more career goodness between episodes? Head on over to DianaAlt.com and smash the big green let's Connect button to sign up for my newsletter. Let's make work feel good together. And that's it for this episode of Work Should Feel Good. If something made you look laugh, think, cry, or just want to yell yes at your phone, send it to a friend, hit follow, hit subscribe, do all the things. And even better, leave a review if you've got a sec. I'm not going to tell you to give it five stars. You get to decide if I earned them. Work should feel good.

Diana Alt [01:08:18]:
Let's make that your reality.