Diana Alt [00:00:04]:
Hey, Diana Alt here. And this is Work Should Feel Good, the podcast where your career growth meets your real life. Each week, I share stories, strategies, and mindset shifts to help you build a work life that works for you on your terms. Welcome to Work Should Feel Good. This is the show where your career growth meets your real life. I'm your host, Diana Alt, and today my guest Liz Wilcox and I are going to talk all things about building work the way that you want it to work, fit with your life, and how to survive it in this crazy world.

Liz Wilcox [00:00:47]:
I'm so excited. Sorry to interrupt. Yay.

Diana Alt [00:00:50]:
So fresh. Princess of email keynote speaker, email guru. How did you land an email? Tell the people how you did an email marketing that everybody.

Liz Wilcox [00:01:01]:
Yeah. Speaking of Work should feel good, I started as an RV travel blogger. Well, first I started as a teacher, and then I thought, I don't want to be a teacher forever. That doesn't feel good. I guess I've just been chasing the good vibes for longer than I even thought. And I said, you know what would feel better is if I made more money. But I love education, so I'll go. I'll be an administrator.

Liz Wilcox [00:01:25]:
So I went and got my master's degree in leadership, and then I had a kid, and I thought, now education doesn't feel good at all, because I could be a really great educator or a great mom, but I know myself and my capacity. I can't do both. And so I let that dream sort of go. And I thought, well, what am I going to do? Because I do like to work. Work does make me feel good. It does give me some sort of purpose outside of motherhood. I thought, oh, well, start a blog. I could work from home.

Liz Wilcox [00:01:59]:
That feels good. That's an immediate yes. Oh, unlimited earning potential. Immediate yes. And so I started blogging. I was an RV travel blogger because guess what? I was traveling in my rv, and after a few years, it just didn't feel good anymore. Wow. Now I get why Diana had me on the show.

Liz Wilcox [00:02:20]:
Y' all are in for a treat. And I just thought to myself, you know, I don't want to throw all this hard work away. What am I really good at? What did I learn from this blog? And what's the best part of this blog? And I thought, oh, it's my email list. My email list is the thing that just lights me up. I never miss a weekly newsletter. I never miss an opportunity to, you know, have a conversation in the inbox. Oh, I should probably teach that. I'm actually.

Liz Wilcox [00:02:50]:
Let's Let me look at my stats. And I compared my stats with some other people, some other gurus out there, and I thought, I think. I think I know something that they don't. You know, I'm coming at this from a different angle. And for about a year, the travel work didn't feel good. And people would ask me, a mutual friend, Diana, and I have Terry Weaver. He was like, what do you going to do next, Liz? What if it's not the RV thing? What are you going to do? And I said, I don't. I don't know.

Liz Wilcox [00:03:19]:
I don't. I haven't settled on anything. But when I thought, oh, yeah, I'm really good at email, that feels good. I sold my blog almost immediately after and went all in in the email marketing space. So, yeah, I guess you could say I've been chasing work that feels good for a very long time.

Diana Alt [00:03:39]:
Uh, it's one of my favorite things about you. So very honestly. And you do it in ways that people say, well, you can't do that.

Liz Wilcox [00:03:48]:
Lol.

Diana Alt [00:03:49]:
Most of my audience is corporate wonks. So some people might be like, why do you have this person that went on reality television as Survivor, which we'll get to later, and is an entrepreneur, like, what does she have to teach people that are mostly in corporate America about feeling good? And I think you taught several things just in that path that you went through. My favorite thing of all, though, is that you took the job that you were doing that didn't feel good anymore, and you honed in on the part of it that you loved and then used it as a transition. You didn't. It looks like a completely different business. It looks like it has nothing to do with what you did before, but one of the core, most important activities for your blog is now what you're teaching, right?

Liz Wilcox [00:04:38]:
Yes. And I love. You know, the last word of that sentence Diana said is teaching. And remember, I come from an education background. Right. And so to Diana's point, a lot of people do look at me and look at my career path, so to speak, and they're like, oh, she's kind of all over the place. And I'm like, don't let the rainbow glasses fool you. I actually am very strategic in my decision making, just as you should be in your career.

Liz Wilcox [00:05:07]:
Okay, what's this thing that I like about this job, about this work, about this part of my career, and how can I remove the things I don't like and move forward with the things I do? So it was, okay, well, I'm an Educator. I love teaching. Okay, well a blog is going to teach people about said topic. It's not gonna, you know, it's not the traditional educator I know. You know, Diana's parents were educators. You know, it's not that traditional path but I'm still teaching. And even today I just moved back into my old neighborhood and I'm friends with a lot of the people I went to college with still or I'm you know, becoming, we're re friending each other, right? And one of my, one of the teachers told me that another one of our old mates was like I just, sometimes I just feel so bad for Liz because she never went into teaching. She never, you know, really, you know, she was so passionate about teaching.

Liz Wilcox [00:06:09]:
And I, I said well you tell Heidi, lol. Because I actually basically created my own school where I have thousands of students from dozens of countries all around the world. And I'm making, you know, 10, 20 times the amount I would have made if I took the traditional career path. I'm still teaching, I'm still, I love my students so much. I'm still super passionate. I just, it just looks a little different than the traditional path.

Diana Alt [00:06:43]:
I feel the exact same way, only I'm on like the smaller end because I mostly do one on one and I, you know, I want to do some more scaled community stuff later but my parents both taught at the junior college level and then my dad later at the four year college level. And my mom always like when I was in high school she thought I should be an English teacher because I was a very good writer, a very good communicator and I didn't do that. I went to engineering school which I was also good at all of those things. But I feel like I have always taught in every environment that I'm in in some way, shape or form. I have a very distinct memory of my friend Morgan that I used to work with at an edtech company. She and I were both in product management and one night several of us were out to dinner. I don't know why, we were at a training class or something. So we just all went out to dinner and we were talking about what do we think each other's superpowers is? And she didn't even know me very well but she said, oh, it's teaching.

Diana Alt [00:07:43]:
For sure, it's teaching.

Liz Wilcox [00:07:45]:
Oh, I love that.

Diana Alt [00:07:46]:
Yeah, that's so true.

Liz Wilcox [00:07:47]:
Yes, Diana is an amazing educator. Love it.

Diana Alt [00:07:53]:
I, I try to be. So a few years ago you and I attended a retreat for that our mutual friend Justin Schenck held in New Orleans. And during that we had like a little share time, like talk about whatever you want, present something. And you did not talk about email marketing. And you had an impact on a number of people in the room because what you did is instead you told people, you led with, I decided that I was never not going to go pee whenever I had to pee again. So I want you to tell us about how you got there, why it mattered, and kind of what difference that could make in someone's life or made in your life.

Liz Wilcox [00:08:37]:
Yeah, so it was. It's such a silly but somehow radical act of self love. And it was just, I think my talk was like, how to. How to start taking action and saying yes to yourself more, something like that. How to self love or something like that was the topic. And yeah, one of the ways that I started saying yes to myself more was to go to the bathroom when I had to go to the bathroom. And y', all, I know you're maybe you're listening to this at your desk or you are in the carpool lane right now or something, and you probably have to tinkle a little bit, but you probably, as a corporate person, it's like, oh, well, I have a break in 20 minutes. You know, that's when I'll go.

Liz Wilcox [00:09:25]:
Or, you know, if you're an educator, right? Educators, that was one thing we were taught. And actually in my bachelor's program in elementary education, they were like, yeah, you're probably going to get a kidney infection or something because you're not allowed to go to the bathroom until your kids are out of the classroom, right? And so, like, it's such, y', all, it's such a basic need, right? It's an actual need. It's not a want. Your body doesn't want to go to the bathroom. It needs to, you know, go to the bathroom. And so one day I just decided, you know, I'm gonna go to the bathroom when I have to go to the bathroom. And that's gonna be my way of saying yes to myself and to bring it, you know, full circle to Diana's question, how has that helped me. It's helped me say yes to other things when I just instinctively know I gotta go, right? Like, oh, yes, you know, I gotta go to this event.

Liz Wilcox [00:10:22]:
I have to sell my blog and move on to this email marketing thing, right? Because I have this. As silly and ridiculous as it sounds, I have this daily, multiple daily practice of saying yes when my body is telling me, you know, this is your Next step, this is what you need to be doing. And so when it comes to those career switches, right to those big, you know, whether you're in a career, you know, and you're trying to up level, ask for the promotion or switch gears, change, you know, change your position or whatever, or, or it's someone like me who's like, well, I started a business like this, but now I want to go in this direction. That stupid, silly act of saying yes to yourself when you have to go number one or whatever, like, can really translate to so many other areas of your life. It's insane.

Diana Alt [00:11:16]:
And I'll tell you what, I, I used to, immediately after I got back from that retreat, I started giving myself permission to run to the bathroom if I needed to pee in the middle of a coaching call. And in the entire time, four years since then, I've never had anyone object to that. They're like, oh yeah, go do it. I'm gonna go get a drink of water.

Liz Wilcox [00:11:40]:
Literally.

Diana Alt [00:11:41]:
They like, they're part of my, some of my values are I, I want to display to people that you don't have to be perfect. You can be very competent, you can be excellent at what you have to do. You don't have to be perfect.

Liz Wilcox [00:11:54]:
Love it.

Diana Alt [00:11:54]:
So that pure act of saying I'm going to take care of myself shows, agency. It is my me saying yes to myself. It's showing other people it's okay to say yes to themselves. Are there a few circumstances in life when I would not do that? I, if I was speaking on a stage to 200 people before, like, I'm, I'm not going to. Right, yeah.

Liz Wilcox [00:12:16]:
Be responsible guys, you know, like, don't ask in the middle of the job interview or, you know, when you're asking for the promotion. Be responsible. If you got to go, go before. Right. But I, I love that you do that. And it's. Honestly, it's a bit of a power.

Diana Alt [00:12:31]:
Move, I think so.

Liz Wilcox [00:12:33]:
And I just call it like a bio break. So in my job, I do a lot of zoom calls and I'll build in. So what I've done now is like, I just build in time. If I know it's going to be a 90 minute session, you know, and because I'm the one talking, I'm drinking a lot of water and so I just build in like, hey, it's a five minute bio break. If you gotta go, go. If you want to get a drink of water, you just need a brain break. I'm going to put five minutes on the Screen, you know, and it's just again, just saying yes to yourself. Just building it in even can really help.

Diana Alt [00:13:07]:
Yeah.

Liz Wilcox [00:13:08]:
Funny. So funny you brought that up. So funny you remember that.

Diana Alt [00:13:12]:
You know, it's, it's funny because like Ian in our friend that was at that. We talk about that a lot. I will sometimes when Ian. Ian's had a very demanding job where they've had. He's an IT supervisor and he's had build outs in his company and like long, long hours and every once in a while, like, I'll text him and be like, have you peed this afternoon? Like, it's been part of our vocabulary. Off and on for that whole.

Liz Wilcox [00:13:37]:
Love, y'. All. Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:13:39]:
So your approach in email, I really want to talk about this. I've had people asking me what I think about this in the kind of some career coach communities I'm in. Your approach to email is to write email like you're talking to a friend. You even have developed your model of email staircase. I want to know how you think that plays in a world where in depth newsletters are becoming a thing again. We live in the age of substack and I've actually had people tell me, you should be doing a substack. Like there people on my list that are like, why aren't you doing this? This seems the way of the future and all that. How do you think we can blend being friendly with our audience, with living in an age where people are now wanting more in depth information?

Liz Wilcox [00:14:33]:
Yeah, well, I'd love that they want more in depth information. I, I feel like there's, you know, it's a sort of backlash to the, you know. Yeah. To the, you know, attention span of a goldfish. You know, when you're really interested in a topic, you are interested in it. Right. You read up, you want more information. When you really trust that person as the expert, you want to read everything they have to say.

Liz Wilcox [00:15:01]:
So I love that. But I think it's especially important in the beginning when you're audience building. Right. To keep it short, keep it to the point, but keep it friendly. Right. Hey, by the way, my name's Liz. I love the 90s and I love email marketing. Great to meet you.

Liz Wilcox [00:15:24]:
Right. So in the beginning of audience building, it's really important to keep it, you know, fresh and friendly and short. But I think substack and things like that work really well for the established person. Right. Like Diana mentioned. Oh. People on my newsletter are asking, why don't you do substack? Those people are already Friends, Right. So Diana mentioned my email staircase.

Liz Wilcox [00:15:53]:
Follower, friend, customer. Right. They're not followers, they're friends. They're, you know, I know Diana emails about once a week, maybe sometimes more. Right. Depending on her promotion schedule. And so they already, you know, they're sold on Diana altogether and so they want more. So it makes sense that they're asking for more.

Liz Wilcox [00:16:13]:
I think there's room and I love that there's room for both, both methods to survive and thrive right now. But I think the substack, the longer in depth newsletters are either for like super niche communities or, you know, for people who already have a super established, loyal readership.

Diana Alt [00:16:39]:
I appreciate you saying that. I think that people are making a false dichotomy. Like what I've observed with a lot of people that have asked me or impressed me the most on that or said this is the way. I don't know why anyone would do these short emails is because we're trying to act like we can't be two things. I don't know anyone that can go more in depth in more different areas about email marketing than you. But that doesn't mean that every single communication has to be that way. And you're building your YouTube to go in depth. So yeah, there's just genius of and the genius of.

Diana Alt [00:17:20]:
And so the, the nine dollars. You have the nine dollar membership. You were one of the OGs of the nine dollar membership. Which is one of my favorite things to tell new business owners. You can learn from the best for this price point. But why'd you pick $9?

Liz Wilcox [00:17:42]:
Yeah, so it just felt good. I mean it really on theme for this show, honestly, you know, it was a myriad of decisions that led to that, but it was, you know, how can I get the maximum amount of customers? Right. Because that's what I need. Right. I'm not going to go back to a job. And by going back, I'm, y', all, I've never really had a job. I'll be honest. I've, I've created a lot of jobs for myself and other people.

Liz Wilcox [00:18:17]:
Does that count? So it was how can I get the maximum amount of subscribers, subscribers converted over to customers? It was what is a price point that feels good for me and is going to feel good for them? And what is a price point that is going to make me, you know, feel like the work is good and should continue? Right. And so for me, like Diana, I was doing a lot of one on one. I was doing a lot of high ticket stuff and when I would sell Those packages, it would feel good in the moment, but then delivering on that was much harder for me. I have a kind of. Or at the time, I had a very stressful personal life. And so I wanted my energy to go to, you know, the people that matter the most. Right. Because your job is not going to show up at your funeral.

Liz Wilcox [00:19:15]:
Right. And so it was like, okay, well, what can I do very intentionally to very slowly kind of replace that income? And I thought, well, for $9, maybe in a couple years I could replace this income. I could, I could do something for a couple years. And for $9, I can turn the computer off at night. And I know a lot of you are going to be able to relate to that. Of. I feel like I'm tethered to my phone. Like, y', all, if you're not watching this on YouTube, like, if you look at my apps, these are all the apps on my phone.

Liz Wilcox [00:19:51]:
That's it. Like, you probably have 14. Yeah, it's like nothing, Right. And you can see my Gmail account, but that is not my work email. I do not have my work email. This is my personal email.

Diana Alt [00:20:05]:
I don't have my work email on my phone either.

Liz Wilcox [00:20:07]:
That's great. That is so great because it just tethers you and so forth. Going back to the original question, for $9, I felt like I can take my work email off my phone. If someone asks me a question, it can wait 24 hours because you paid me $9 and that's the energy exchange. And so for me, that felt really good. And four and a half years later, it feels actually phenomenal.

Diana Alt [00:20:42]:
I love the contrariness of it because. And I also love the success you've made of it because you show. I, I always want to ask this question or talk about it. Like, if I. I could practically give some of like Liz's spiels because I actually bought into her membership on day one. If you are on my email list and you like it, thank her because that's why you like it. But I really like how you talk about how purposeful you were doing it. You were doing it for work life balance.

Diana Alt [00:21:14]:
You were doing it to make it accessible. You were doing it to think about having a lot of customers instead of relying on just a few customers. And I watched other people try to do nine dollar memberships because they didn't have the confidence in their product, which is a whole different ball of wax. So you have the confidence that you could do this.

Liz Wilcox [00:21:36]:
Thank you. And that's. I mean, that is a big Part of it. And I. I'm glad you said that, because for me, I look at it a little differently of, like, I just love my offer. I love it so much. It's my favorite thing. I think it's the smartest idea I've ever had.

Liz Wilcox [00:21:55]:
So, of course I would want to brag about it, you know, AKA market it, AKA talk about it everywhere, but. And I love the name of this podcast. Work should Feel good. Because it. It still is work. You know, it's. You know, it's Friday, 3 o'. Clock.

Liz Wilcox [00:22:12]:
I could be at the beach. It's 85 degrees out where I live right now, you know, but it's work to sit here. Obviously, I'm having fun, and Diana is one of my absolute favorite people. But, you know, it's still work. And after we get off this call, I'm going to have to do a little bit more work. Right. And so it's just like, what is the kind of work you want to do? And do you feel, to Diana's point, like conf. About it? And some of the people that have tried, you know, $9 memberships, they're not willing.

Liz Wilcox [00:22:42]:
I mean, they're either. It's either what Diana said. They're not confident enough in the offer or they're not willing to put in the work.

Diana Alt [00:22:49]:
Yeah.

Liz Wilcox [00:22:50]:
Because it is work. And that's the same in your career. Right. The person is either just super confident, and so they move up the ladder because they're just. They just expect it. Right. Or it seems that way, or they're putting in the work. Right.

Liz Wilcox [00:23:03]:
They're there. They're doing all the things Diana teaches to do. Right. I. I really think that's the only difference between anyone that, you know, gets what they want and the person that doesn't.

Diana Alt [00:23:16]:
I just love what you said about the confidence. They just expect it. So often that kind of thing gets like. There's a lot of things that are not inherently bad that we try to make bad, especially if we feel very good about ourselves. And expecting good things to come to you because you worked hard and because you made yourself visible and because, you know, your stuff is one of those things I think a lot of people feel like is, well, you shouldn't expect things. You should be grateful for everything. You can expect good things. And you can also be grateful for what you have and for the things that you're going to have.

Liz Wilcox [00:24:00]:
Yeah. And I think the more grateful you become, the more you understand, oh, good things are coming my way. And there is. So, to me, they Go hand in hand. The more grateful I become, the more things just suddenly naturally happen for me. It's like, oh, snap. Like, I'm so. You know, I just mentioned, like, oh, it's the best idea I ever had.

Liz Wilcox [00:24:22]:
I love it. Like, I'm so grateful to that little Liz that was sitting at her computer and said, okay, yes, today is the day we're going to announce this. Right. I think about that person, and I just. I wish I could give her a hug, because I'm like, you're a genius. I love you so much, you know, and.

Diana Alt [00:24:42]:
And even jealous of you the day you launch that lol.

Liz Wilcox [00:24:46]:
Well, even Diana, I'm so grateful for her. Yeah, she joined on the first day, and she's been one of my biggest cheerleaders. You know, I just mentioned, oh, yeah, I could be at the beach, but I'm here. Like, I'm so grateful that. That Diana gave me a platform to come in and chat today. Even if we just mentioned my membership a little bit, you know, I'm just grateful to be putting in the work. It's different when you just expect, you know, oh, I just. I did the work.

Liz Wilcox [00:25:17]:
I just expect the result. Like, I think the gratitude has to be there, too. Like, I'm grateful I got to do this work, and now I know that the result will come. I don't know when it's going to come, y'. All, I have been wanting 10,000 people in my membership for, like, two years. We're not even halfway there yet. I don't know when that's going to come, but I definitely expect it to. And I'm so freaking grateful that I see sales coming in every day.

Diana Alt [00:25:48]:
Yeah, gratitude is an interesting thing. I've had a complex relationship with it. There was a period of time when I was trying to do, like, the gratitude journal that some people suggest where you write. You know, you write three things down every day. And actually, there was a point where it became a burden because I was not in the best headspace, and it felt like a chore to do that. So I stepped away from it for a while, and now I just constantly do it in my head, though I don't need to write it down anymore because it's just part of me, and I've thought a lot. I'm. I'm having surgery in about a month and a half.

Diana Alt [00:26:29]:
I have to be off work for most of the summer. I haven't decided when I'm publishing this. I may be on leave whenever I publish this, but I have worked really Hard to have the kind of relationships with my one on one clients where they're not upset that I'm leaving, they trust me that I'm going to refer them to someone to talk to or we're going to get things done before I go out. And I've also worked really hard to have a certain level of financial stability in my professional life. Like, do I always want more revenue in my business? Like, yes.

Liz Wilcox [00:27:01]:
Amen.

Diana Alt [00:27:01]:
Do I. Do I sometimes crab about, like, oh, I haven't hit this level yet that maybe I watch someone like Liz hit? Yes. But this is my. One of my family members said, diana, like, if you're grousing about spending the rainy day fund, like, you have to remember that it's actually raining. Like having a brain tumor removed. That's raining. So I'm really, actually calmer right now than I thought I would be. So I'm gonna turn.

Diana Alt [00:27:36]:
I'm gonna turn a little bit to Survivor because I promised people that I would. I actually asked some people that. Some we know mutually. Some are, like, my nephew had some questions, some of the questions about Survivor, and the first thing is kind of a bridge question. So when you did Survivor, you recorded it in 2023, and you took 90 days off that year so that you could do. You did Survivor in Fiji and then you were recovering. What led you to have the confidence that you could take 90 days off your business and still be able to eat and live indoors when you got home?

Liz Wilcox [00:28:16]:
Systems, y', all, systems. I mean, I joked, oh, I've never had a job. But like, the corporate world could not exist and would not exist without systems. And I think that big. If you're thinking about, you know, quitting your job and, you know, starting some freelancing or becoming a consultant or something, Diana will tell you, you need systems. Right? You know, you, the. You will not escape the manual. You just won't.

Liz Wilcox [00:28:48]:
And so for me, you know, I applied and again, the confidence there, I just knew I was getting on. So I started creating the systems immediately. I was like, yes, okay. Patricia, that's my sister that works with me, she only worked with me part time at that time. But I was like, hey, if there's any chance I'm getting on there, these systems are going to take a while. I have, you know, barely any. So we've got it. We've got to start planning right now.

Liz Wilcox [00:29:18]:
So I actually hired an operations manager and basically they uploaded my entire brain into a software called Notion and created all the systems. Any little thing I did throughout the Day it is now in notion and y' all let me tell you when I did that I was like wow, I didn't think I really worked that much. But no wonder I'm, no wonder I sleep like the dead. No wonder I sleep like the dead at the end of the night, you know, no wonder I'm a little cranky after 7pm if I haven't had a little chocolate or something. And so that really gave me the confidence because I knew I had the systems. My sister came in from part time to full time. We kept that operations manager for the summer because I told them I'm only going to be gone five weeks but I know whether I win or lose I'm going to be exhausted and so I'm going to need more time. So let's pre plan, let's you know, front load some things that normally I would do during the summer.

Liz Wilcox [00:30:27]:
So again I had the SIMPs, the systems and then I front loaded a lot of the work that I still needed to do so that the system and the automations would just take care of it. And yeah, you could not get me to touch that laptop with a 10 foot pole. I was only supposed to take one month off after getting home. I ended up taking nearly two months off. So it was like between 90 and 100 days. And Patricia, my sister was very glad to see me come back but nothing, but nothing was broken, everything had still been done. That was more of a confidence as you know now that suddenly she's a full time employee and not only is she a full time employee, her boss has gone, you know, her boss refuses to answer the phone and it was.

Diana Alt [00:31:21]:
And can talk to people.

Liz Wilcox [00:31:22]:
Right, right. So she had, I mean talk about throwing somebody into the deep end of the pool. Can you imagine getting hired and then you're the only person in the office for the summer. You know she, she's a trooper, you know, somebody should really give her a raise.

Diana Alt [00:31:38]:
I, I, I love watching the growth in Patricia over the last couple of years. Because you did three months off in 2024 as well, didn't you?

Liz Wilcox [00:31:48]:
Correct. So I, again I took time off and that was much simpler for Patricia and for me I would say for me it was harder that year because I was, you know, I wasn't got, you know, CBS didn't take my phone away from me. Right. And I wasn't starving to death when I came home. Right. And so for me it was oh well what if we add this, what if we add that? And it was this really interesting dynamic. You Know, we're sisters, but also between, you know, the, the lead of the team, that's me and her, you know, who's sort of, you know, she's, she's the task doer, but she also, you know, she has autonomy. She's had autonomy.

Liz Wilcox [00:32:36]:
And so that was an interesting dynamic. And even this year, we just did a live right before recording this and she said, she said, I'm so excited for Summer because Liz won't be here. So she, so she won't.

Diana Alt [00:32:53]:
She won't.

Liz Wilcox [00:32:53]:
You know, some of us bosses, we don't mean it. We just have big visions, you know, and we need people on our team to say, hey, actually last week you said this was our number one priority. Are we still, are we still on that track or, you know, do you want us to completely abandon that project?

Diana Alt [00:33:15]:
Yeah, I have those conversations with myself.

Liz Wilcox [00:33:18]:
Yeah, yeah, we all do.

Diana Alt [00:33:20]:
Yeah. Funny story, when I went to the neurosurgeon, like, he's like, okay, you need to do this. Basically, we're citing that. And here's what it means. You have to be off work for eight weeks. I just looked at him and I said, my boss is not going to be happy about that. He didn't confirm myself, but the nurse practitioner and my family member that was in the room with me did. And I fill out a form like it's the law.

Diana Alt [00:33:48]:
They have to let you. And so we just bust a gut. And he's like. But he said, you know, it's eight weeks. And the reason it is is because he's like, you can do anything physically you want if you want to. When you, you know, if you want to go walk three miles a day and you feel up to it, do that. But I do not need you to do any strategic plan planning because your brain is healing. So I guess I'm going to be writing eight weeks of emails sometime A few weeks.

Liz Wilcox [00:34:13]:
Well, I'm excited. You could use the membership. And then when you're eight weeks off, you can catch up on Survivor.

Diana Alt [00:34:21]:
I only have 46 and a half seasons to left to watch.

Liz Wilcox [00:34:28]:
Look, they're great on a binge. Eight weeks. I think you could do it.

Diana Alt [00:34:34]:
My friend Tamara asked what made you decide to do Survivor to begin with.

Liz Wilcox [00:34:40]:
So I've always wanted to be on the show. I, I, ever since I, you know, I saw them eating rats on tv, I was like, that's my type of weird competition. I just love it. And so on and off in my life, Survivors come in and out.

Diana Alt [00:34:59]:
But.

Liz Wilcox [00:34:59]:
It was never a possibility until I had created my membership until I had, you know, work. That felt so good because I had created such an intentional offer. And so what made me actually, like, you know, pull the trigger on it was me looking at my calendar and saying, yeah, actually, I think with a little bit of practice prepping, I could take five weeks off of work. And that's really what made me apply to be on the show finally, after a lifetime of wanting to do it.

Diana Alt [00:35:38]:
Not a sassy 7 year old.

Liz Wilcox [00:35:40]:
Yes. And my 7 year old was like, are you gonna talk about it? Are you gonna do it right? And y' all a client. I had a client call that next day that had canceled, and I was like, ah, it's a sign, you know, I mean, whatever. And I applied and they emailed me about 15 minutes later.

Diana Alt [00:35:58]:
That is wild to me.

Liz Wilcox [00:35:59]:
It's wild to everyone. Even other people that have played, they're like, what? That's crazy. And what's even wilder, y', all, I was in Eastern time, so I applied at like 10:30 in the morning. Eastern. Casting directors and producers are in Pacific time. Right. They live in LA, so it must have been like 7:30 in the morning. Her name's Penny.

Liz Wilcox [00:36:23]:
Penny must have just been like, getting out of bed, turning on the computer, or maybe it pinged on her phone. Maybe she has her work email on her phone. Probably. Probably. They. Those people work hard all year round. And she must have watched it and just immediately emailed me back. It's insane.

Diana Alt [00:36:43]:
That's one of my favorite things because especially, like, I found the dark side of Reddit, AKA the Survivor subreddit, whenever. Lol, it's your season. Which doesn't know what to do with Liz because she was like an icon for many reasons on her season. And then she goes into this forum that was mean to her. And it's always nice. You're always answering questions.

Liz Wilcox [00:37:06]:
Oh, you see me in there nowadays. Yeah. I've turned the tide. That's something you want to talk about. Superpowers. I have this superpower.

Diana Alt [00:37:14]:
You know, the people love you.

Liz Wilcox [00:37:15]:
Yeah. I can diffuse, like, any situation. And so, yeah, that's so funny that this is great to have when you, you know, whether you own your own business or, you know, have to work in an environment with other people, it's like, it's so good to be able to turn people's opinion around.

Diana Alt [00:37:37]:
You're really good about the. Like, to me, the thing that I've observed in you, I've tried to cultivate in myself and I observe in other leaders is like, really understanding the difference between being upset at the person and addressing the issue at hand.

Liz Wilcox [00:37:52]:
Amen. That's a sound bite.

Diana Alt [00:37:54]:
Some. Everything from. Everything from serious work stuff or like, if you're in the government, like, crazy government policy stuff, all the way down to somebody that's not happy with their life making fun of you when you were on television and you were, you know, in a subreddit. Like, all of those situations have to do with, can we understand what's the issue at hand? You can't do anything about the person that's upset, except for maybe in a subreddit, except for maybe say thank you for your question or, yeah, let it go internally.

Liz Wilcox [00:38:33]:
Yeah. And this was something I learned at university, right? Was, you know, how to address the issue. Because that can be really scary, Right. And you want to talk about, you know, having work that feels good, work that feels good, or even a work environment that feels good, is having people like that, that are like, okay, let's just. Let's just cut to what the issue is here and let's talk about it directly, because this was a conversation I even had with my sister, my assistant recently was. We were having an issue in the inbox with someone, and she called me. She said, I feel sick about this. I just feel really sick about this.

Liz Wilcox [00:39:16]:
I feel like we're not on the same page. They might be upset. I don't want them to be upset with me, because then they're going to be upset with you. And, you know, my reputation is everything. Right. I mean, that's everybody. And, you know, one person says a bad thing, you know, all of Reddit hates you suddenly. Right? And I said, well, let's just get them on the phone.

Liz Wilcox [00:39:38]:
Give them my phone number right now. Let's just, you know, I don't. Yeah. And then today, you know, I got on the phone with them, you know, they ended. Oh, I. This is so fun. I'm having so much fun. And I'm like, okay, great.

Liz Wilcox [00:39:51]:
When? Yesterday. I know. Dang. Well, they were ready to curse me and Patricia out, right? And so then I just went and I said, hey, you know, the next time this happens, let's just, like Diana said, let's just cut right to the issue, get them on the phone with me, you know, I know we can address this. And so I think that's what a lot of leaders aren't well versed in, or they don't ever rehearse addressing the issue. They want to deal with the. The drama of it, all. Right? When really it doesn't have to be dramatic if we just.

Liz Wilcox [00:40:25]:
I love that Diana said that. Just address the issue. Even in job interviews, any job interview I've had, it was, I wanted to, you know, you, you're thinking in your head, how can I be really good at this job? How can I make a great impression? I literally just ask. I say, I know I could go. I know I could do a good job. You tell me how I can do a great job.

Diana Alt [00:40:48]:
I think that's a really, that is also a power move just to express your own confidence in your skills and say, I'm up to the challenge of being great.

Liz Wilcox [00:40:58]:
Yeah. So true.

Diana Alt [00:41:00]:
I've got one from my client. This is the best question I've ever seen related to Survivor.

Liz Wilcox [00:41:08]:
Okay.

Diana Alt [00:41:09]:
So my client and friend Erica said who. She's the one I told you about that had been a Survivor fan for like, yes. The very beginning. She said, I love feminine rage in pop culture.

Liz Wilcox [00:41:24]:
LOL.

Diana Alt [00:41:25]:
Especially in TVs and movies. Your Applebee's challenge meltdown was a masterclass in like processing emotion in real time. What are some of your favorite feminine rage moments in pop culture? Can you think of any beside your own?

Liz Wilcox [00:41:46]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:41:47]:
So I.

Liz Wilcox [00:41:49]:
Well, Diana, what are some of your favorite and maybe that will help trigger me.

Diana Alt [00:41:53]:
Oh, gosh. I think that.

Liz Wilcox [00:41:57]:
Oh, Sinead o', Connor, Saturday Night Live when she ripped the pope's picture in half. I don't even think I was alive when she did that, but I remember watching it on Comedy Central. They re aired it. Yeah. And I'm a huge fan of comedy even, I mean, female comedians that just aren't afraid. I mean, it's female rage wrapped up in humor. You know, like someone like Sarah Silverman. Nikki Glazer is an, is an.

Liz Wilcox [00:42:29]:
Well, she's not new, but she's more like moving into like a list celebrity, I would say so. Even Mean Girls, the movie Mean Girls. Right. Tina Fey adapted that as a screenplay. You know, the, the fighting and the, the, you know, looking at the high schoolers and the high school girls as animals from the, you know, Sahara. I feel like that's, you know, it's, it's, it's a form of feminine rage in pop culture of saying like, yeah, this, you know what, this is hard as a teenage girl and we're all just trying to get by but somehow, you know, fighting each other and I, you know, maybe, maybe those are some of my favorites.

Diana Alt [00:43:22]:
I thought, I thought of the. Right when you said it, I thought of the Sinead o' Connor thing and anything Sarah Silverman done does kind of fits in that category, especially earlier in her career. And for those that aren't big Survivor fans, Liz was on season 46, and there was a moment where she was starving more than normal because she was allergic to everything, and so she couldn't even eat the food that was available. And she was denied the opportunity to go on a food reward for something she could have eaten and snapped on national television. And it was wonderful. I mean, like, it was healthy processing of emotion. Even though I was sitting in my living room going, like, why did they starve my friend? Even though it's a year later.

Liz Wilcox [00:44:08]:
Yeah, well, you know what's so funny is last night I was paid to do an improv show. And if you're not watching this on YouTube, you should, because I'm going to pull up a picture, and there were these men there with, like, pictures of me screaming and on T shirts, and it said, I'm pissed because that's what I scream. And I think the lesson I got out of, well, first of all, that's just so funny, but the lesson I got out of that feminine rage and, you know, being on international TV. Survivor is aired in 125 countries. Like, there's, you know, outside of sports, there's not really a show that's bigger in the world is that, you know, sometimes it is okay to express your feelings. And I loved that. You know, in a game for a million dollars, you can get voted out for snoring too loud. Okay, for just being annoying.

Liz Wilcox [00:45:05]:
And I have this moment, and I think, oh, gosh, I'm out of here. I lost it. I'm, you know, I'm gonna get fired, essentially, right? They're firing me from the game. I'm going, there's no way anyone wants to work with such a loose canon. But in that moment, you know, our environment was incredibly stressful. And the person that I freaked out on was a very chaotic human who was just wanted someone to do that to him, you know, just begging for it. And everyone, every single person came up to me and said, you know what, Liz? You're braver than me. I've been wanting to do that since the moment I met this person.

Liz Wilcox [00:45:56]:
And in that moment, I received a lot of grace, right, Because I was being incredibly hard on myself. Oh, I shouldn't have done that. That's going to be on national tv. It's all I'm ever going to be known for. There's no way they're editing that out, you know, like, oh, gosh, what's my daughter gonna think? What's my brother gonna. You know? Like, all these things, you know, if I would have kept my mouth shut, maybe I'd still have a friend, you know, but everyone gave me grace. And that's when I realized that as much as I give grace, you know, I give people the benefit of the doubt, I tell them, no sweat, no worries. Oh, my gosh, people can do the same for me, even in my darkest moment.

Liz Wilcox [00:46:43]:
I mean, y' all can Google it. I'm sure it'll be in the show notes somewhere. Like, it's intense, okay? It is intense. That is not editing. That is not production egging me on. Like, that is pure, unfiltered. I'm starving, and I feel like I've been wronged. And so I think when we bring that back to, you know, the real world, you know, of course, we don't want to be inappropriate.

Liz Wilcox [00:47:08]:
We don't just want to be popping off at the mouth. But it taught me that, you know, I don't have to be so hard on myself when I make a mistake, when I'm late to the meeting, when I say something kind of stupid, I wish I didn't say, you know, I can just simply address the issue, hey, yeah, that was messed up. I'm sorry about that. You know, how can we move forward? How can I make this feel better for you? You know, and people will give you grace a lot faster than you think.

Diana Alt [00:47:38]:
You know, so many people never learn to give themselves grace. That on one hand, like, the experience of going to Fiji, being on Survivor, going through all of that, the kind of health and psychological things that happen after that, for so many of the cast members of seasons, including you, that's huge. But if that's the price you pay for the rest of your life to be able to give yourself more grace, it might not be that high of a price. That's a long time. You gotta live.

Liz Wilcox [00:48:15]:
Yeah, yeah. No, I feel great about it. I mean, sometimes I'm like, oh, wow. But then I remember, oh, actually I was just very hungry and very, like, emotionally. I mean, we were all emotionally manipulating each other. So it's not like I'm saying, oh, it's a traumatized, you know, I was doing it back to them as, you know, 10 times as much, you know, but that's, you know, me at literally my worst moment. And you just better thank your lucky stars that there are no cameras around you, you know, when you're at your literal lowest moment. And just remember that the next time you make a Flub or, you know, oh, I went off the handle a little bit.

Liz Wilcox [00:48:59]:
You know, maybe just put yourself in timeout and give yourself a hug and get back in the ring.

Diana Alt [00:49:07]:
Thank you for sharing all that. I have a couple of, like, lightning round questions.

Liz Wilcox [00:49:12]:
Yeah, I love it.

Diana Alt [00:49:13]:
I know you gotta go.

Liz Wilcox [00:49:15]:
It's all good.

Diana Alt [00:49:15]:
Your weekend. You have an 85 degree beach to go visit. What is the worst piece of advice, career advice you have ever received?

Liz Wilcox [00:49:25]:
Don't do that.

Diana Alt [00:49:27]:
Oh, did you hear it a lot?

Liz Wilcox [00:49:31]:
All the time.

Diana Alt [00:49:32]:
All the time.

Liz Wilcox [00:49:33]:
I still do.

Diana Alt [00:49:34]:
I know you heard don't do $9.

Liz Wilcox [00:49:36]:
Yeah, don't do that or why would you do that? Lol. Step back. Watch me.

Diana Alt [00:49:42]:
Yeah. Hold my beer. What is a personal habit that's helped you be successful?

Liz Wilcox [00:49:51]:
A personal habit that's helped me be successful is. I don't know if it's a habit. Just not allowing myself to give up. I don't know if that's a habit. I don't. A habit, I guess is just getting my butt in the chair every day, even if I don't feel like it. I don't allow my feelings to dictate my actions.

Diana Alt [00:50:17]:
I love that so many people talk about not being motivated to do this, that or the other. And I have a complicated relationship with that because I have, like, physical energy limitations.

Liz Wilcox [00:50:26]:
Shame. Same.

Diana Alt [00:50:27]:
And you do too. But that's not the same as not being motivated. Like, I'm in the chair every day, even if I have to take a nap after lunch.

Liz Wilcox [00:50:35]:
Yeah. And y', all, your best looks different every day, so sometimes my best because Diana and I have both had different health problems for the last few years, sometimes my best is I just get on this one call today and then, yeah, I take a nap. But I, I, I'm still in motion.

Diana Alt [00:50:54]:
What's something you've changed your mind about recently? Like last. It could be right away or like last couple of years. What have you changed your mind about?

Liz Wilcox [00:51:03]:
So I'm kind of a black and white thinker. I'd like to think I live in the gray, but I don't. I'm an extremist. But especially after going on Survivor, I realized that, you know, it doesn't. Your best really does look different every day. And so something I've changed my mind about is, like, what does winning look like? Like, spoiler alert. I didn't win Survivor. I came very close.

Liz Wilcox [00:51:30]:
I was the last person eliminated from the competition. And speaking of giving yourself grace, for a long time I did not give myself grace. I felt like you Know, double L on the forehead, loser. And I would argue with people when they said, oh, well, you won because of this. And I'm like, no, actually I lost. Like, literally I lost. But I'm, I'm slowly changing my mind around that because I see so many different ways it's impacted me in a positive way.

Diana Alt [00:52:04]:
What's a common misperception people have about your work?

Liz Wilcox [00:52:10]:
Oh, that it's more complicated than I let on. It's really not. I have a very simple business model. A lot of people that are, you know, like above my level, they're like, oh, but I know you're working super hard. And it's like, well, when I'm working, I'm working hard, but I'm only really working like 10 to 20 hours a week. Like, it's really not more complicated than that.

Diana Alt [00:52:39]:
Yeah, well, that's all I had. I appreciate you coming. What do you want people to know about? I'm going to put up the Liz Wilcox dot com. I do have a fair number of people who are doing side businesses or starting, you know, their own consulting firms and probably need some email marketing. Do you want to tell a little bit more about your membership so they can.

Liz Wilcox [00:53:02]:
Yeah, sure. So if you're a consultant or you're trying to do some freelance or maybe you're trying to build an audience of your own for a paid newsletter or something like that, I do have a $9 a month membership where I write your weekly newsletters for you. So it's not this chatgpt, you know, tell me what to write this week. It's very like Diana, I can't help but strategize, right. So we talked about the email staircase. Follower, friend, customer. I help you take those followers, turn them into friends. People who know you're invested in them, people who relate to you.

Liz Wilcox [00:53:38]:
I help you stay top of mind with them so that you can convert them into customers later. When, whether you're thinking physical products, digital products, or, you know, services, again, like consulting or something like that, that's what I help you do every single week. I write your newsletter for you. It's like Mad Libs. Fill in the blank. Speaking of AI, nowadays, you could just put my template into AI and say, hey, I'm this person. I have this tone. Can you fill in these blanks for me and it'll spit something out for you? $9 a month.

Liz Wilcox [00:54:13]:
Why not give it a try?

Diana Alt [00:54:15]:
Why not give it a try? A couple of things I'll say about it are. Number one, I used it with chatgpt for the first time last week because I've trained it on a bunch of stuff and it did a pretty good job. I was excited. Cool. Number two, for those of you that are strategic thinkers, Liz gives you the strategy behind every email newsletter too. So she explained. Explains we're trying to get people to click because that's good. Then you'll show up in the main inbox.

Diana Alt [00:54:41]:
We're trying to do this, that or the other so that it's not just an email. It's an email that fuels a business. So, Liz, thank you so much. I love having you on here. I always love talking to you and you're the best.

Liz Wilcox [00:54:56]:
Yeah, thank you so much. I can't wait to see people create better work that feels so good to them. Thank you so much.

Diana Alt [00:55:04]:
Thanks. Hey there. Do you ever find yourself wondering, is it finally time to walk away from this job? You might want to go over and check out my free mini video [email protected] it's going to walk you through the four pillars of an aligned career and let you know whether it's time to start making your move. That's isittimetowalk.com and that's it for this episode of Work Should Feel Good. If something made you laugh, think, cry, or just want to yell yes at your phone, send it to a friend, hit follow, hit subscribe, do all the things. And even better, leave a review if you've got a sec. I'm not going to tell you to give it five stars. You get to decide if I earned them.

Diana Alt [00:55:51]:
Work should feel good. Let's make that your reality.