Diana Alt [00:00:04]:
Hey, Diana Alt here. And this is Work Should Feel Good, the podcast where your career growth meets your real life. Each week I share stories, strategies and mindset shifts to help you build a work life that works for you on your terms. Hello, hello, hello everyone and welcome to Work Should Feel Good, the show where your career growth meets your real life. I'm your host Diana Alt and today my guest Teegan Bartos and I are going to discuss the importance of visibility to your modern job search. Teegan, who I have known for several years as a peer in career coaching on LinkedIn, is the founder and CEO of Jolt yout Career where she helps high achieving professionals ditch outdated job search advice and land roles aligned with their next level goals. She's a nationally recognized expert in resume writing, career coaching and recruiting by multiple organizations. Tegan combines her unique combination of workforce program recruiting experience and her no nonsense Chicago style clients rewrite their career stories and rise to the top of the pack.

Diana Alt [00:01:26]:
So I'm so glad to have you here. Welcome Teegan.

Teegan Bartos [00:01:29]:
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here with you too because we both keep it real. So this will be interesting to have.

Diana Alt [00:01:36]:
Us both in the this is definitely probably going to be PG13. Just saying. So one thing I want to know is I've never yet met a recruiter that intended to be a recruiter from very early on, like in college or childhood. So how did you. But you have like workforce stuff as far back as your LinkedIn goes.

Teegan Bartos [00:02:01]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:02:02]:
So how did you wander into recruiting? Did you want to do it earlier than a lot of people?

Teegan Bartos [00:02:07]:
No, I graduated during the recession and my job offer was rescinded. I ended up going back to where I did my psychology internship at, which was a workforce development program. Dodge just eliminated funding for it today, so that will no longer exist. AmeriCorps, Job Corps, they all just lost their funding. So I worked there and then I switched to a different workforce initiative, Opportunity Act. WIOA is what it's called funding program and the government doesn't pay well. And so an agency that I funneled a lot of talent through through and who frequently asked me to help find talent for them, he was like, you know, off of this placement that you just had that would have been your full year's annual salary, but in a commission check. Yeah, my notice got put in real quick and I hated it.

Diana Alt [00:03:10]:
You hated recruiting?

Teegan Bartos [00:03:11]:
Oh yeah. At there. I liked it at first. I learned, you know, behind the scenes of agency recruiting and then they did a reorgan. I was placed under New leadership who had different ethical standards than I did. And so I quit and I started JYC and I haven't looked back since. Last year I opened up JYC Recruiting and I'm recruiting my way and ethically with white glove balancing, you know, candidate needs with my clients clients needs and just kind of taking a different approach to make sure that, you know, the, the whole entire thing the clients always write isn't the case when they're trying to hire illegally by saying only one gender or a certain kind of last name so you can pay them less. Yeah, I'm not working for a client like that.

Teegan Bartos [00:04:08]:
And so, so yeah, I get to do things differently now.

Diana Alt [00:04:12]:
I love that. That's great. Yeah. I had in your bio like all this jolt your career stuff. But JYC Jolt yout Career has. You've got career coaching which we're going to talk a lot about because everybody wants to know about what are these modern job search things. And then you've got the recruiting side and then also you have your consulting side. Do you want to talk just a little bit about that before we wander into whatever's next?

Teegan Bartos [00:04:39]:
Yeah. So I believe in revenue diversification. I think for anyone it's smart. And while I love working with job seekers, the reality is corporate clients are going to have larger projects. And so ever since the beginning I took on corporate consulting roles building out programs, helping build out proprietary ATS systems.

Diana Alt [00:05:07]:
Okay.

Teegan Bartos [00:05:08]:
Emerging leadership trainings, internal mobility strategies, so on and so forth. And so I love having three different verticals because it gives me a 360 view of what's happening. I know what, what hiring decision makers are thinking. At both Fortune 500 and scale up level. I am working with talent that's either in the market or confidentially searching. And then I also get to recruit and figure out what the appetite is for for top tier talent who I'm trying to poach from one company to go to to my client. So it really works. Well, it's kind of like a flywheel.

Teegan Bartos [00:05:47]:
Right? Because how many people do we know who haven't worked in corporate for a couple of decades and are so out of touch with what's actually happening? I get to live and breathe it every day. No offense to anybody who's like that, but there's a difference.

Diana Alt [00:06:03]:
I mean it's just, it's a choice. Everybody has the different things that that makes it work. Like for me, the way I look at my flywheel which is not as sophisticated as yours. Like I've watched you evolve the Brand and bring in consulting and recruiting more in your messaging and your website and all that kind of stuff. I look at it as my ethos is work should feel good and I have lanes within that for kind of the same avatar. So it's leaders in tech, whether that's high impact, individual contributors all the way up to VPs and higher. I want those people to feel good at work and create environments where they do that. So you know, before we got on this call I was pitching a or I was writing pitch emails for my alma mater School of engineering for CliftonStrengths workshops and I do executive retainer coaching and I also have job search stuff.

Diana Alt [00:07:01]:
And so yeah, I'm working all those angles. You just work with the same thing but you're doing corporate and individual. So it's all the same vibe that we're trying to. One of the things I really think is underestimated though is that understanding of what the hiring managers and the actual executives in the business that aren't in talent acquisition know and understand and want. I think there's a lot of people out there that think the only good career coach is the one that's worked in recruiting. But as a person that hired myself and never worked in recruiting, I'm a little sensitive to that and all this different background. What do you think that the experience with the hiring managers and those leaders get you that a recruiter doesn't get that can help you with your job seeking clients? Does that make sense?

Teegan Bartos [00:08:02]:
It does. And recruiters and hiring leaders play two different roles in the talent acquisition workflow. Right. So the hiring manager is going to know exactly what they want for this role for their department, what kind of cultural fit they think would thrive. And then the recruiter is checking boxes, they're going through a process. Recruiters, great recruiters build relationships and can drive influence, especially executive recruiters. But many recruiters, especially high volume recruiters, they don't have the depth of those relationships or the deep understanding of the division or the nuance of what's happening internally. So executive recruiters very frequently pivot into HR business partners roles because they get so deep in the strategy of it.

Teegan Bartos [00:09:00]:
Most recruiters don't have that type of expertise. And so when you're, when you only have a recruiter lens, especially if you haven't been at the executive level, you're going to be thinking more process, more keywords, more box checking. Then when you get to the hiring leader round, you're going to be thinking more eq, you're going to be Thinking more strategic in terms of what type of value can you bring to the organization? How does your past experience align with the direction that we're going in the future? Those, those types of things.

Diana Alt [00:09:42]:
Yeah, that I, I love what you say about that because one thing that always pops in my mind is like, yes, there's screening decisions that recruiters make, but other than shortlisting, there are not true, very many true decisions being made by recruiters.

Teegan Bartos [00:10:00]:
Nope.

Diana Alt [00:10:00]:
Because they're following the guidance of the hiring team that they're working with. They're making sure that they're sending very strong matches and that's important. I don't need to diminish that. But that recruiter, whether they're executive or not, does not have to live with working with that person that's hired. Their skin in the game is different than the director or the VP or the C suite of whatever who is bringing that person on the team. And another thing that comes to mind is so many people, especially job seekers, that have never had to hire for multiple roles at the same time. They don't understand that it's not about just about who is the most qualified. It is about what are the complimentary skills and experience and personality that's going into a team.

Diana Alt [00:10:53]:
Yes, you can be amazing and you can have worked in the industry, but maybe you are stronger on the technical side than on the relationship side. And they've got too much of that and so you're not going to get it that time even though you're amazing. You could apply six months later for another opening and they want more of you by then. Yeah, but yeah, it's that whole, what does the whole organization look like? What does the dynamic of the team need to be? Is some so misunderstood by people?

Teegan Bartos [00:11:21]:
I think that's why it's so important for anybody who's on their job search when they're positioning themselves to keep their audiences in mind. That's Marketing 1 over 1. Who is your target audience? Well, the complexity of when you're on your job search is first and foremost you're going to have technology. Right. Like is the resume or the, the LinkedIn profile or the ways that you make yourself visible, is it working with the technology? Are you fighting against the algorithm by not using the drop down box or are you having a properly optimized LinkedIn profile and, or resume? And then there's the recruiter who's going to be more of like a box checker and then there's going to be the hiring leader who's going to be thinking about far more complex things and to add another layer onto it. When you get into higher level roles, you are probably going to have to interview with the board. You are probably going to have to interview with people that you're going to oversee or cross functional stakeholders that maybe wanted your job. And so one of the things, one of probably the hardest interview rounds for the majority of my clients is when they're interviewing with the people who will report to them who are applying for the job and didn't get it.

Teegan Bartos [00:12:38]:
And so you've got, you have so many different audiences who are going to want to hear different things and if you are aren't sophisticated enough in the way that you're addressing the different audiences needs, you're going to fall flat too.

Diana Alt [00:12:51]:
I think that, oh, there's so much to unpack there. From the technology to the board interview. We need to talk about those because it's something not a lot of people get exposure to.

Teegan Bartos [00:13:06]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:13:07]:
I've only had a few clients that have been at the level that they've been interviewing with the board. And I swear that they've taught me as much as I've taught them about how to navigate that. Let's start with the tech though. Okay. Because before I hit record, you and I were speaking about some of the scanning tools that you and I both get talked about. Like we get asked about all the time. Job Scan, Teal, There's a million of them. I don't even know what all of them are at this point.

Diana Alt [00:13:37]:
But you've been acknowledged as a career expert by Job Scan and Teal. And yet you and I both also have some reservations about some of the functionality of Jobscan and Teal. So can we talk a little bit about first off, where those tools, especially the resume scanner tools or the resume composer tools, I think that's the one that draws people in the most. Who are those good for and who are they not good for in your opinion?

Teegan Bartos [00:14:10]:
I think that they're good for people earlier in their career or individuals who don't have strong business acumen.

Diana Alt [00:14:18]:
Okay.

Teegan Bartos [00:14:19]:
Or somebody has always been at a level where they've never really been in touch with how strategic decisions are made. They not, they may not be able to articulate the value they brought to the organization. And a lot of these tools will try to pull up metrics from you instead of just listing duties. So that's great. However, a more sophisticated job seeker who's more advanced in their career and has exposure to P&L, KPIs, etc. They're going to understand how significant they are to the, the process of vetting you and in which that case those tools wouldn't be as helpful in terms of writing the resume or optimizing the resume because your, your research, looking at quarterly earnings reports. Even if you use chat GPT to, you know, analyze what's most important, the relationships that you have where you're getting that insider information so you can tweak your positioning, those tools are going to fall flat because they don't have that insider.

Diana Alt [00:15:29]:
You can get more from spending even if you don't want to do it all the time. If you just the few months of your job search, spend 20 bucks on chat GPT and use the deep research around the company and then each person you're interviewing with, you can get a lot of insight. Yep, when I think about those tools, I think that they are, they're definitely good for people that never, they can help people that never went beyond the task oriented resumes that you learned at your college career centers. Yeah, I wish they would also stop teaching, but I can't fix the whole world. Another thing that occurs to me that these tools cannot do very well. They don't understand like one of the most aggravating thing in the world to me is when I run through and do one of those scans and it tells me I'm not matching on a term. And it's because like for example, maybe I'm a product manager and product manager is in the job description like 12 times. They want to see it 12 times on your resume or they'll tell you that you are that that's no good and that's not how, that's not how searching works.

Diana Alt [00:16:40]:
No, that doesn't make any sense. So we've got to be careful with understanding the limitations. Another thing that I've observed is when people are making a pivot, I have a whole presentation that I've given to some people about pivoting from say software engineering into project or program management. You don't get the nuance of if I'm applying for a senior engineer or an engineering team lead role, I'm going to talk about these metrics. Almost always somebody at that level has some project management competency. If they want to pivot over into product project management, they should talk about the impact on that Hearing resume looks maybe only 20% different than their project manager version of their resume. But that 20% is why you get called and why you don't get called.

Teegan Bartos [00:17:33]:
So any of the machine learning tools and even now the ones that have AI enabled on it, they're just not as smart when it comes to positioning as a human being. And even outside of the resume parsing or even resume writing, some of them offer the, Some of these platforms have like organization tools and tracking tools. Those are what I think they're useful for. Yeah. If you're not, if you're not staying organized in your job search and if you're not tracking the data to, to be able to identify where you're getting your highest ROI for your time. So if you apply to 100 roles and you get zero interviews, but you send 10 networking DMS and you get one informational interview, where are you going to have the higher roi? So if you can track your job search activity, it's going to give you a pulse on what's working well, what's not, where should you pivot, where should you lean in, what messaging might be falling flat and what you might want to refine.

Diana Alt [00:18:36]:
Yeah, I, that, that's the one thing when people ask me about Teal, I tell them that if their Trello board, their Excel spreadsheet, their whatever is not floating their boat, that that's a really good thing to chase down. Now there's another range of technology that has come up that I don't know about you. I get asked about it too, and it's those like automatically apply things which are, there's different ones that have different kind of ways to go about it. Like the, the only one I would ever tell somebody to do is the one that goes and finds things and makes you click, click, click, click. That you're actually going to apply not just applies to things that you're not aware of. But what are your thoughts on those tools other than. My gut says ick. But we probably should tell people more thoughts than just ick.

Teegan Bartos [00:19:33]:
Recruiters are being bombarded from people using those tools and they, they mass market you with the same resume without, without tailoring, without getting the referral first. So it may feel good to feel like you're having some productivity because of the numbers behind you, applying to a thousand jobs a day because that's the tier that you brought in at. But if you're not getting any results from it, if you don't like the company that it applied to, if it's not even the right kind of role for you, that work is not going to feel good. Or as I like to say, it's not going to be a perfect fit role in terms of like, fit function, interests, you know, personality, those internal and external motivators that make work feel good. And so I'm not a fan of them. From a recruiter perspective, I'm sure should. I'm not a fan of them because.

Diana Alt [00:20:29]:
You know, sometimes people will say like, I don't want AI to create art and write books for me. I want it to do my laundry so that I have time to create, create art and write books. Like, I feel a little bit the same way about this. There's a really tangible risk that comes to mind for me and that is that recruiters do pick up the phone and call. Yeah, not every recruiter, not all the time, but there's plenty, especially on the agency side when time is absolutely of the essence if they want their agency to get the placement, not another agency to get the placement that they are picking up the phone and calling. And if you have a recruiter call you for a role that a System applied for 100 or more roles this week, you can't remember what it's about. You're not prepared. You're like, who the heck is ACME Corporation? Like, I don't even know what that is.

Diana Alt [00:21:25]:
And then they have it fall apart before they even schedule a phone screen with somebody. Because we've taken all the personal out of it. I've maintained for a couple of decades now, but especially in the last five years, that the best thing that could happen is to put steps in place, information in place that discourages applications.

Teegan Bartos [00:21:51]:
Well, that's why the application process is how it is and why people hate them so much. So applicant tracking systems or applicant tracking software to be more accurate. And that software was created to automatically parse the resume into the application to streamline that part. But they, they don't cover the nuance of so many resumes. Like if you've been promoted at the same role before, it'll get it wrong. Like little basic stuff like that.

Diana Alt [00:22:16]:
And talking about that though, Tegan, I'm not talking about the ats. I'm talking about actively being as brutally truthful as possible in job postings so that no one people don't even hit apply.

Teegan Bartos [00:22:31]:
Well. Right. But that's why these extra steps have been included. So like they made that part easy, but they made everything else difficult. The knockout questions, the personality assessments, the, the one way video interviewing that then AI, you know, analyzes and makes recommendations based off of. So companies have done that, but it a lot of times deters top talent. If I'm highly desirable, I'm not going to jump through hoops for you. And I'M sure I should have.

Teegan Bartos [00:23:02]:
Not gonna go through a process like that. I'm gonna be referred or I'm gonna be recruited. Now for individuals who aren't at the level that are at the senior level, leadership level, a lot of times there is no option but to go through that because like at an agency for example, they make you jump through things, things. And so I feel like some of it has been done but there's been different ways that it's been used where it almost feels where, where a lot of people are frustrated having to, you know, submit a project portfolio that's customized to something that they're doing to decrease how many people apply. That's free work. I don't know.

Diana Alt [00:23:43]:
So I think honestly it should be illegal. I don't, I'm not a person that throws out this should be illegal. Very often it should be illegal to ask a job candidate to perform any sort of project that in the hiring process that could conceivably be used by the company without compensation.

Teegan Bartos [00:24:06]:
And look at every single top Fortune 1050 company. They all have projects.

Diana Alt [00:24:13]:
Yeah, I have started hearing more, I've heard more this year than like 23 and 24 of people actually saying they're getting paid. And I don't know if they're, you know, my client base is getting savvier at finding those values aligned corporations or if it's something else. But yeah, the. When everybody has decided that the holy grail is skills based hiring and then they want to give their own project, it's aggravating. There ought to be a way for people to be vetted or to demonstrate skill and have it in a portal. So if someone says, oh you want my CliftonStrengths? We'll go to my Tegan and Diana portal. And I uploaded the CliftonStrengths I took two years ago so I don't have to take the damn thing again. Or I did a project for a case study company to do a roadmap or a product strategy or whatever.

Diana Alt [00:25:11]:
Like that would be so useful for.

Teegan Bartos [00:25:12]:
People on the recruitment side. I think that companies all have different needs. So like my scale ups need something completely different than my Fortune 500 clients need. And so the way they vet talent is going to be completely different. The way they attract talent is going to be completely different. And, and even if they're, you know, apples to apples comparison, their cultures are going to be different so their process is going to look so different. And that adds to a complexity of what job seekers experience because you're not going to run into the same process twice most likely.

Diana Alt [00:25:52]:
No. I think that there's, there's certain kinds of things that in many roles especially like not at that VP and C suite level but like I think a lot about software engineers and product managers because that's two of the top groups I've worked with my coaching practice and there are some things that you can demonstrate also, especially in the case of product managers. A product manager that is an excellent candidate for scale up is almost never an excellent candidate for Fortune 500 and vice versa. Yep. So if Fortune 500 once would want to show different skills then scale up and startup on average would should be fine to create something replicatable. I have no no desire to try to start that business that I just said someone should start. But if anyone wants to steal that idea, I'm sure Tegan and I would be happy to be part of your market research. So let me wander.

Diana Alt [00:26:54]:
I. I love that we're let's talk about the board interviews. Before I forget.

Teegan Bartos [00:26:58]:
Oh, I just had a client that had such a fun board interview, so.

Diana Alt [00:27:03]:
Let'S talk about what that actually like first for people that might not know or have experienced that. Can you talk about what a board interview is, what kinds of roles might be subject to a board interview and kind of how they're different from interviewing with, you know, the person a couple layers above you in a normal interview.

Teegan Bartos [00:27:27]:
So typically C suite level roles will interview with the board and depending on the organization there may be a hiring committee like non profit typically has a hiring committee on their board where even a director level would have to interview with with the board depending on the organization. And they are going to be looking at different things because the board steers strategy and profitability. That's what they care about. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their, to their shareholders or have that responsibility to the grants or whatever depending on what kind of industry you're in. And so when it comes to those interviews, you've already been vetted by hr, whether that's HR or recruiter, you've already been vetted by the hiring manager, you've already been vetted by cross functional stakeholders, you've already interviewed with people who are going to report into you and then the last stop is the board. And typically the board is the hardest round because these are key roles that the board is going to spend the time interviewing with and so they're going to be pickier to make sure that you're really in alignment with what they're looking for. And so there's so much bias that can come in and so many personality factors that can come in at this level because it's not as, it's often not as clinical as earlier rounds where you have like an interview grading matrix where it's like on a scale of 1 to 5, you know, how much did they align with this competency? Oftentimes boards will use that to keep bias out. But I mean it's, at that point it's, you're, you're deciding two perfectly qualified candidates who's going to get the role.

Teegan Bartos [00:29:20]:
And so I just had a client who, who was found by search firm and they've been looking for this role for a year.

Diana Alt [00:29:33]:
Ops.

Teegan Bartos [00:29:36]:
Yeah, a COO role. And the board member, he didn't pass through anyone. He worked from the ground up at this family owned business that eventually went public. Well, my client, he worked his way up in manufacturing and so he started on the ground floor, went through college, eventually rose to leadership, which was able to pay for his master's degree all the way up to C level and had had amaz amazing success. And so in the board interview, that was his story. That was how he was able to resonate and connect and build trust that I'm not just somebody who was born with a silver spoon in my mouth who's gonna treat, you know, the, the people in quality like crap. No, I'm, I'm a, I'm part of the people and that is part of my secret sauce as a leader. And that's what got him through to the next round.

Teegan Bartos [00:30:36]:
And, and it took really doing deep research on that board member to figure out where his values lie, what was going to resonate with him. Part of it was the recruiter prep. Here's what this board member said he liked or didn't like about, you know, the 20 other candidates who have interviewed over the past year. And then part of it was, you know, putting on, putting on that positioning hat of, of how to make an advantageous pitch to him. But I've had other, other clients interview with the board and it more came down to super niche experience or, or relationships. So often the board is focused on, well, how can you bring that extra something to my organization? Do you, do you have the right relationships? Are you going to attract the right talent? Will you back me on my initiatives? Like, are we aligned there? So, so it can get really political at that level.

Diana Alt [00:31:35]:
One of the things that, you know, I think most people go completely about interview research the wrong way. They're too surface about it. But when you think about the kinds of roles that are going to be trying to go before a board. A lot of the things that are most important to that board might not be public.

Teegan Bartos [00:31:57]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:31:57]:
They could be initiatives that are going to drive the business for the next three to five years. And they haven't even announced that they're going in that direction. So if you do, even if you go deeper on your research, you oftentimes can't find that out.

Teegan Bartos [00:32:13]:
Now you got to have an insider. Like if you're interviewing the board, you have to have an insider.

Diana Alt [00:32:18]:
So. Well, cool. Well, thank you. Thanks so much for like unpacking those things. We went from the thing else, the entry level to the thing that helps the C suite. Let's talk about a thing that can help everybody and that is visibility. I know you and I both have talked about being more passionate about helping people with visibility. You have whole like workshops and coaching programs that lean really hard into visibility.

Diana Alt [00:32:45]:
What the heck do we mean about visibility and who is it the most important to?

Teegan Bartos [00:32:51]:
I think everybody can benefit from visibility. Visibility doesn't mean being loud. Visibility just means being findable. And so.

Diana Alt [00:33:06]:
What'D you say that again for the kids in the back?

Teegan Bartos [00:33:10]:
Visibility doesn't mean being loud, it just means being findable. And so there's, there's a spectrum of visibility. There's those on the, my profile is optimized and I quietly network behind the scenes. So if I ever want to make a move, I'm going to be able to. And then there's the other end of the spectrum where I am a thought leader. I am actively looking for TEDxS, presenting at industry conferences, constantly posting thought leadership pieces, you know, being recognized with awards and so on and so forth. A very big spectrum for visibility. And so I think it can help everyone.

Teegan Bartos [00:33:55]:
I have an on demand coaching portal that I white label for a variety of different organizations. Boot camps, academic programs and, and whatnot. One of them is a help desk boot camp. Just basic it, entry level, entry level. And they get on and the first thing I say is every single project you do, post about it, post about what you're learning about, hold your video, hold your camera up while you're moving all these cords around or plugging in this computer, talking itself through. Because then no one can't say that you don't have experience. You just prove it. So how are you getting a job after having a boot camp experience but no work experience? Because you show them you can could do the work.

Teegan Bartos [00:34:41]:
You show them how you solve through problems and that's sometimes more powerful than somebody who has more experience than you all the way through the leadership level. I've got a client who I've met While speaking to 18,000 Seats and Super, super smart person. And they started positioning themselves quietly, started hosting hackathons, started to have their marketing team position them for different industry related awards and things like that, which ultimately led to them doubling their comp by going from a smaller organization, a midsize organization, to going to a Fortune 500 organization to.

Diana Alt [00:35:33]:
And that's hard to do.

Teegan Bartos [00:35:34]:
Like going from mid size to going to Fortune 500 is hard. And doubling your salary while you're already, you know, in mid six figures, it's a challenge too. But that's what visibility can do for you. People want to hire people that they know like and trust and you can do that through the spectrum of visibility.

Diana Alt [00:35:54]:
It's also, it's very interesting is when I talk to people about doing these things, there's a couple things that come to mind. One is whenever I talk to people about doing anything, like posting the slightest thing on LinkedIn, for example, there's this big cons. There's two top concerns. One is what is my work gonna think? And the other is but I'm not expert enough. Well, number one, if you do it right, your work is happy because you're helping with their employer brand. Their employer brand, which is very important. But even if you're not the expert, if you're the help desk wannabe that is playing around with chords or like figuring out how to reinstall Windows, whatever we're on now Mac girl here. So I have no idea.

Diana Alt [00:36:43]:
But you don't have to show that you're the top expert. You need to understand where you're talking from and be honest about that. So if you are learning in public, which is what I describe, that help desk person that's playing around and taking a video, that is like the student level. If you're one step ahead of people like, oh, you're a senior product manager and you're talking to people about like here is how I finally broke through from product owner to senior product manager. That's like a Sherpa, just kind of helping people along the trail. And then maybe you're the sage, maybe you're that top expert. That model I stole from Mike Kim, who wrote an excellent book called you'd Are the Brand that everybody should read, especially anybody that's doing any kind of business. But it doesn't matter as long as you're honest.

Diana Alt [00:37:35]:
Yeah, what I think people worry about is they're talking like they're the sage, but they're not really there yet. So go be a Sherpa, it's fine.

Teegan Bartos [00:37:43]:
I've worked with a lot of clients who have been in toxic workplaces and they could not post anything publicly. I've even had clients that have made me sign NDAs and I couldn't post anything about them. I have had one client where I couldn't post anything on LinkedIn at all. Lesson learned early on in my career. But you can, you can engage with other people's posts. You can leave comments. So even if you don't want to post, I would beg to argue or I would argue that leaving comments is more powerful because then you're building relationships at the same time that you're sharing your thoughts or perspectives. And don't just show up and flatterly like, oh my God, Diana, you're such a amazing, miraculous thinker.

Teegan Bartos [00:38:27]:
No, like, yeah, I would agree. And also, here's something else on top of that. Or this is such an interesting topic. Here's an article that I found, you know, that, that shares something. So. So add to it. Be a part of the conversation, not a brown noser.

Diana Alt [00:38:42]:
Yeah, and I've. And I tell this to people too. I do think if you haven't done anything, if you're worried you're not visible, if you're worried, there's cobwebs all over your LinkedIn and nobody would understand anything except for that copy that you did a resume you last updated four years ago. Just comment. If you look at and have a goal to comment five times a day on something related to your industry that has either an insight or a question. So if it's something you're learning about and you just want to say, where could I learn more about that? Or what about this? I don't understand that. Like, being humble enough to ask a question shows something about your character. It adds to your learning and it builds a relationship.

Diana Alt [00:39:26]:
So that's some of what I'd say. Yeah, the, the one of the things that I find really interesting, like there's a question that I. I'm gonna spoiler alert you for later, but there's a question I've asked on every single one of these episodes and I'm really wanting to go make a playlist of this on YouTube and it's what's the worst career advice you've ever seen? So don't answer it now. We're gonna do it later. But a lot of people have Said, just do hard work and you're going to get noticed. It's false. It's so false, so making.

Teegan Bartos [00:40:01]:
But why is that false? It's false because you can be doing great at your job. But that bigger picture of the organization, your role may be replaceable or that great work that you're doing may not contribute as much as something else.

Diana Alt [00:40:17]:
Yes.

Teegan Bartos [00:40:18]:
So where we're thinking this is our world, the greater business spreadsheets are saying like, great, we needed that.

Diana Alt [00:40:26]:
But it's, that program is no longer that important and a priority.

Teegan Bartos [00:40:31]:
Yeah. And just like that, it's gone. And so we have to find ways to be able to position ourselves for not only what the business needs now, but what the business needs moving forward. Which is why it's so important to schedule one on ones with your leadership team to get put on high visibility stretch projects.

Diana Alt [00:40:49]:
Yep, absolutely. And that's visibility too. So if you don't, if you don't want to touch social media or you don't ever want to go beyond, you know, a few good comments every week on LinkedIn, that kind of internal visibility is helpful too. Yeah, working. I always encourage people to work both angles. So don't not work internal visibility because you're working external visibility. Like how the heck do you think you survive? Even if you're in a place you know you don't want to work long term, get the stretch assignment because that's what gets you out of there faster. And questions that you ask on LinkedIn or the posts that you do or the podcast that you join, those things will help you move forward.

Teegan Bartos [00:41:32]:
Or even joining a nonprofit board where you're going to be required to help fundraise, but you're also going to be able to get visibility to skill sets that you might not have internally. And that's visibility because now you're working with people who have like minded interests who are working towards a cause that you care about and your network will rapidly expand, which is visibility.

Diana Alt [00:41:57]:
One of my favorite ways to recommend to people to do that is to join a nonprofit association in a field that they're in or that they're interested in and then look for something on the board specifically to develop a complementary skill. So an example of that that I see a lot is people like, if you're, if you're say like a technical person, like you're a python guy, I have one of those on my client roster right now. You're the, you're the top python guy at your company, but you're getting burned out on the tech side of it, you would rather be a product manager working on AI and ML products. Go join your Python club or your data engineering or what, what have you and then offer to head up the marketing team or be on the marketing committee because there ain't no marketing skill building happening in your Python job. Yeah, possible exception of if you're actually working on that kind of data set. But that's a, that's a really powerful way to showcase, to build relationships and to showcase that you want to learn skills and you're going to do anything you have to do in order to do it. Let's talk about old techniques that don't work. That's a, you talk about it a lot.

Diana Alt [00:43:19]:
What are a couple of the old techniques that don't work that we haven't talked about yet? Like spray and pray doesn't work. Task based resumes don't work. We know that. What are a couple of other ones that don't work? And what do you tell people to do instead?

Teegan Bartos [00:43:37]:
I'm not opposed to having a diversified job search strategy, so I'm okay with reactive and proactive efforts, but tracking them to see what's working well. And so you know, back in the day people used to just show up and say, can I have a job? You walk into a Target or Walmart and you can't get it, they'll be like go to the go online. They don't, they don't even have the computers anymore where you can fill out the application in store anymore. They got rid of those. They're like, you got to go through the portal. Corporate takes care of it. We don't do that here. So I feel like going in and applying typically isn't one that works.

Teegan Bartos [00:44:13]:
What? I literally had a client who just landed that way, which is mind blowing to me. Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask her what exactly she did, but yeah, she was not at the executive level but, but, but it worked for her. So it's like, but I mean you rarely hear that happening anymore. Another outdated strategy that I think a lot of people very recently tried to do was to say that they would only be open to remote work. And just this quickly, from 2020 to 2025, only being open to remote work significantly reduces your ability to land a job today. There's going to be some, but it's going to be a heck of a lot harder. What comes to mind for you?

Diana Alt [00:45:12]:
That comes to mind for me? The other thing that is it seems sounds new but it's quickly not working is DM the recruiter after you apply. We just talked about. The recruiters have Busy. They have 11,433 applications for every job because some damn AI spray and pray tool has sent them all of these things and they, they don't. It. It's just not effective the way it used to be for internal recruiters. For agency, it's a different ball of wax because there's commissions involved and whatnot. But I, I don't think that that's good advice.

Diana Alt [00:45:50]:
I don't think that.

Teegan Bartos [00:45:53]:
I think it depends on the recruiter because some recruiters post their role and we'll say like apply in the message me. If they give you an invite, then that's the cup of tea. But for a lot of people, you're not, you're not getting.

Diana Alt [00:46:04]:
People are putting it in an sop.

Teegan Bartos [00:46:06]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:46:07]:
Of I'm gonna DM the recruiter after I apply. And again, I agree. If they have invited that, then absolutely do that. That's a recruiter saying, that's how I work.

Teegan Bartos [00:46:17]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:46:18]:
The other thing is DM the hiring manager. The hiring managers are often not on LinkedIn and the outreach is typically terrible. If you're going to try to make that kind of connection with a hiring manager as part of a hiring process, there are a half dozen tools out there that you could find with one query on Google that will help you discern what that person's company email is.

Teegan Bartos [00:46:47]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:46:48]:
So go take the step to find that and then understand that whatever you're submitting to them is the equivalent of a cover letter. You don't, you don't like a cover lover, a cover letter. If you're going to do one. The idea is to capture the attention so they want to look at your stuff.

Teegan Bartos [00:47:08]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:47:08]:
When you send an email to a hiring manager that you just got the email from, well, like, you just research that email, don't send them a thing that said I applied for project manager role. 1, 2, 3, please see my cover letter and resume attached. No, no, no. You're going to justify why you were interested in why they should open that resume document just like you're trying to do. If you write a cover letter in that email, you don't want to just say, hi, I just applied for your job. They know workday, send them an email. So that's.

Teegan Bartos [00:47:44]:
I've had clients that have had great luck doing both of those things. So. But they approach it differently. They're not reaching out to a recruiter after they've applied to a role. They're Getting an introduction from a colleague who used them to place them and getting that warm introduction, or they're name dropping that person when they're sending the DM and saying, I am beginning to explore. Confidentially, I'm beginning to explore opportunities. And in this area specifically, and if it aligns with what you or your clients are looking for, I'd be open to having a conversation, seeing the work you've done, and maybe name drop a.

Diana Alt [00:48:31]:
Couple of people that, you know what this brings up, that I just, I have had it rattling around my brain, but I just now came up the words. There's a lot of discussion about reactive job searching versus proactive job searching or networking or finding opportunities. But proactive versus reactive. There are a lot of things that people are doing where they are tricking themselves into thinking they're being proactive, but it's not actually that proactive. When you have made for yourself a little sop that says, I'm just going to DM the hiring manager that says, I just appl for project manager role. 1, 2, 3.

Teegan Bartos [00:49:11]:
That's reactive.

Diana Alt [00:49:12]:
That's actually reactive.

Teegan Bartos [00:49:13]:
Yeah, that's reactive. Building. Building relationships before you need them, before there's a role in mind that's proactive. Same thing with hiring managers. Yes, many of my clients will build pitch decks and proactively pitch a role that might not even exist in an organization based on their relationships or their insider information. So we'll have like a little, you know, index, maybe a little about me or something like that, leadership velocity or something, skill sets, whatever, and then understand, hey, these are, this is your top issue right now. Here's how I work on that and then pitch that role. Because at the executive level, there's so many fractional opportunities or consultative opportunities.

Teegan Bartos [00:49:53]:
And you can approach it like that, but for a W2 role and work yourself into a role. I have clients land like that all the time. And so being reactive to recruiter and hiring manager outreach, I. The ROI is going to be very low. But being proactive, I mean, if you can get a solid three to five recruiters who intimately know you and follow you throughout your career, like say you're in like a pharma sales or something like that, or like clinical research, they're gonna constantly be pinging you, hey, where are you at right now? You ready to make a move? Like this comp is where you'd want it to be. Like, you know, and if not, who would you. Who would you recommend for this role? And that's how my clients land so quickly, is because they, they've, they've nurtured relationships and they haven't only had internal visibility, they've cultivated that external presence as well, whether they needed it or not, preferably before they ever needed it.

Diana Alt [00:50:55]:
So let me ask you this question, then I'm going to turn into my kind of lightning round world when what do you do? Like, all that proactive stuff is great, but there's that, there's that old statement of the best time to plant an oak tree was 100 years ago. The second best time is now when you have someone that is willing to do that stuff but feels stuck because they got laid off two months ago and they've never done it before. Like how they already feel like they're on their back foot in their reaction. So how do you quickly help that person transition from being on the back foot after a layoff into being a mostly proactive search? Without mucking around too much in low value tactics.

Teegan Bartos [00:51:47]:
I would start with clarity first, knowing exactly what you want to do next and knowing exactly what the market needs so you can position yourself. Once you have yourself positioned, you know, Your resume, your LinkedIn, your cover letters template, your, your pitch deck, whatever type of collateral, your executive bio, whatever collateral that you're going to use throughout your job search. Once that's, once that's ready to go, then I would begin reaching out to people in tiers. So start with your tier one, the people who already know, like, and love you. That's family members, that's neighbors, that's. That's former colleagues. And then be specific. You're either looking for additional information, you're assessing out.

Teegan Bartos [00:52:33]:
If they have opportunities, you can ask more of them because you already have that foundation.

Diana Alt [00:52:38]:
Those are the people. Like, those are the people that you can actually say, I need a job doing this exact thing. If you know of something, please let me know. But when you start getting into your B and C connections in the game of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, then some of the conversation has to be a little bit different. If you just drop, I need a job on someone that's nowhere near as interesting as here is my pitch deck in my Three Minute Loom video about the top problem in your company.

Teegan Bartos [00:53:10]:
No, but you want to start to get off your heels. You want to start with the people that you know.

Diana Alt [00:53:15]:
Yes.

Teegan Bartos [00:53:15]:
Because then they can introduce you to people that they know that you, you don't know. So now you have a warm connection with somebody that you didn't already know. And I'll ask, like, who are five people that you think are worth talking to? Who are the busiest bodies that you know that you know might possibly or might not know somebody here or around this topic or whatever. And then you rapidly expand that second tier or that B tier connection group through a warm intro. So now those conversations are going to happen faster. And that person's already teed you up, hey, Diana Teagan is a great friend of mine. She unfortunately just got laid off, you know, when Chase just did the 90% reduction in force with their, with their IT team, whatever, I don't know, whatever. And she would be great for X, Y and Z.

Teegan Bartos [00:54:09]:
You know, she, she would love to learn a little bit more about this. So you came to mind. So they've already teed you up for this warm conversation. So that person's already going to know you're on your job search and this is what support you're looking for. Then you ask them, hey, this was such a great conversation. I'm a firm believer that good people know good people. Who else do you think I should be talking to? And then now all of a sudden, from there, you're at technically level C, but it's already kind of bumped up to level B because you got an introduction from somebody who knew somebody. And so I go through that first because it builds confidence in the way that you're articulating yourself.

Teegan Bartos [00:54:47]:
The more information that you get along the way, the better you are able to refine how you want to position yourself with the additional insider knowledge that you're getting. You can, you can better figure out who you want to have as a target company list so you can laser focus on the companies of interest so that way you can start seeing, okay, well, who in my network works at these companies? Even if it was a past colleague or. And if there's nobody, then start at your university. Who did you go to school with?

Diana Alt [00:55:20]:
Graduated. Yeah. Who graduated three years before to three years after me?

Teegan Bartos [00:55:26]:
Whatever today it could be. It could be a college grad who. Universities, professional memberships. If you're a member of Chief, I mean, you can get in touch with any organization in the world if you're a member of Chief, Even if you aren't in an executive networking group like that, you can still join professional associations like Women in Tech or Women in Cyber Security or Insert or Coach or Technical council, whatever IT council, whatever it's called, or Technology Council, whatever organization you're in, reach out to fellow members because you have synergy there. So anytime you can find somebody with something in common with you, they're more likely going to have a conversation.

Diana Alt [00:56:13]:
I really love what you said about somebody with something in common with you because when a lot of people, especially because I have so many highly analytical like more linear thinkers, my proportion of my client base, a lot of them simply think about the role that they're in. The role that would report to.

Teegan Bartos [00:56:34]:
Yep.

Diana Alt [00:56:34]:
That's who they end up chasing. Do you know anybody that's a VP of L and D? Do you know anybody applying to the.

Teegan Bartos [00:56:41]:
Same damn jobs you are?

Diana Alt [00:56:44]:
But. And that there's nothing wrong with that. But having some imagination. I've told people that one of the top folks that they need to say what they're doing and what they want is their hairstylist. Your hair stylist knows everyone.

Teegan Bartos [00:57:00]:
Hair stylist, financial advisor, cpa, tax person. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Diana Alt [00:57:05]:
But it's. It's kind of an interesting thing because like if you're excuse I'm about to sneeze, which is fun on a recording. If you are a woman my age that gets the grays covered every six weeks, you have a comfort level with that person. You can actually get reps talking about yourself with someone that's close but not close. Yeah. And who knows if the CIO of one of your target companies also sits in that same chair every six weeks.

Teegan Bartos [00:57:35]:
So salon is great for that too. I just landed a recruiting client from getting my nails done.

Diana Alt [00:57:43]:
I love that.

Teegan Bartos [00:57:44]:
And I don't get my nails done often because it's just not really like my thing. But you never know where you're going to meet someone as long as you're willing to have the conversation. And at the end of the day, networking is just talking and you have to figure out how to talk. The quality of your questions determines the quality of your life. I forget who said that. It was Tony Robbins mentor who taught that to Tony Robbins and he made it popular. But the quality of your questions determines the quality of your life. And so if you are on your heels, what questions are going to help you get to where you want to be.

Teegan Bartos [00:58:24]:
And it's not can you get me a job? That's a low quality question. And it sure as heck isn't messaging me or her to ask can you review my resume for free? That's not a good quality question either.

Diana Alt [00:58:38]:
You don't want that. You don't. I just delete those. Unless. Exactly.

Teegan Bartos [00:58:45]:
And then they just lost the opportunity to get good insight from you.

Diana Alt [00:58:49]:
My favorite is when I say this is how to engage me for that. And it's fairly low cost for the value that I give because I'm actually excellent at what's the overarching narrative? And I'm excellent in backing it up. And I know the nuance, especially in my lane. So when I say, like, this is what it costs, and they're like, it's immoral for you to charge me because I'm out of work, I'm like, oh, do I get to eat? Like, do I get to eat too? What is your deal?

Teegan Bartos [00:59:18]:
You know, it's the same thing of like, is it, is that the case for the plumber then? Because you have a water leak charging.

Diana Alt [00:59:26]:
You an emergency, the electric company to charge you for electricity, you're using a.

Teegan Bartos [00:59:32]:
Skill set, a skill set that you don't need. So you're getting an advisor, you're getting somebody to provide a service for you. And that's all about value. And individuals who prioritize professional development don't blink an eye at getting support, but individuals who live from a place of scarcity do. And yes, you have to be realistic with, with what your budget is, especially if you're laid off and, and you're. You were already living pay to paycheck to paycheck. But if you have career ambition, then investing in support, it's well used. That's why so many organizations pay me to come in to lead their emerging leadership program, because they invest in leaders.

Teegan Bartos [01:00:20]:
And if your company's not investing in you, why wouldn't you invest in yourself? You invest to go to school, companies invest in marketing. It just people that way. I get it.

Diana Alt [01:00:33]:
Yeah.

Teegan Bartos [01:00:34]:
Also at the same time, I get what phase of life they're in.

Diana Alt [01:00:39]:
Yeah.

Teegan Bartos [01:00:39]:
But people who want to get to a different phase of life have to start showing up differently. And that's going to take prioritizing different actions and different investments and different time commitments.

Diana Alt [01:00:50]:
I agree with that. Also, if someone wants, you know, there's a saying that says if something to the effect of, if I want to know what your priorities are, I'll look at your checkbook and your calendar.

Teegan Bartos [01:01:03]:
Damn kids.

Diana Alt [01:01:05]:
Because if you. And I see this all the way up and down, I have seen executives, not as many because you don't get there too much of a poverty mindset. But I see executives that say I want and need a job and then they, they just don't take the actions that are as you. I love to talk about being high roi. We have gone on for a long time and I want to respect your time. But I do have kind of some, I call it lightning round that sometimes isn't really a lightning round because we get going a little bit.

Teegan Bartos [01:01:39]:
I'll try to be.

Diana Alt [01:01:40]:
And then we'll let you. Let you tell people where to find you and whatnot. I'll pop up your website and your LinkedIn on the screen at that time, too. So my first thing is the one I asked earlier. What is the worst career advice you've ever received?

Teegan Bartos [01:01:59]:
The worst career advice I've ever received personally is to only go where you belong. Because I am neurodivergent and I'm a woman. And so there's a lot of places that feel like I shouldn't naturally belong there. And I call bullshit on that because minorities or neurodivergent people do belong in rooms that they traditionally haven't been welcomed into. And so I do think it's important to love what you do. And work should feel good, but sometimes you. To create change, you have to spearhead that. And I'm personally one of those people who have the temperament to do that in a way that paves the way for everyone else to come.

Diana Alt [01:02:54]:
Yeah, thank you for that. So the bummer advice, don't go where you don't belong. I love that because, you know, a lot of it going back to that whole conversation about boardrooms, like, we need.

Teegan Bartos [01:03:07]:
More women on board.

Diana Alt [01:03:08]:
Part of the problem with hiring at the executive level is that a lot of people in boardrooms act that way. And there's research that says that if you get three women in the boardroom, massive change starts to happen. If you only have one, it's a token. If you have two, everybody pits them against each other. But when you get three, magic happens. So you have. Somebody's got to be willing to be number one, two, and three in some of these teams and environments.

Teegan Bartos [01:03:37]:
So Women on Boards is a great resource for any woman who is looking to figure out how to position themselves for a board.

Diana Alt [01:03:44]:
What was the name of it?

Teegan Bartos [01:03:45]:
5050 women on boards. It's a nonprofit. It's excellent. They've got different workshops all over major cities across. Across the country. Fantastic organization.

Diana Alt [01:03:56]:
Okay, thanks for sharing that. I hadn't heard of. I think I've heard the name, but I've never looked into it. Thank you for sharing that. What is a personal habit that's helped you be successful in the ways that you want to be successful?

Teegan Bartos [01:04:08]:
I nap and I also have a house manager.

Diana Alt [01:04:13]:
I. Okay, talk to me a little bit about what your house manager does, because I'm considering this for myself.

Teegan Bartos [01:04:19]:
Okay. So I just went on care.com and they have three options. Pet care, child care, or like house cleaning. Right. So I clicked all three. And she does what I don't enjoy doing. I am busy and I have young kids. And so how do I enjoy life and enjoy work? I need help.

Teegan Bartos [01:04:43]:
And my husband is great for a lot of things. He's not great at a lot of things either. And so having someone else to come in and do laundry, to come in and wash dishes, to scrub baseboards, when my children have been being good and their consequence for scrubbing baseboards didn't occur. Toilets. I've got boys, God love her for cleaning their bathroom, for letting the dog out when I'm at a conference, or have to go out of town for work when. When two kids need to be at different events at the same time. And she is godsend. And for me, that has been.

Teegan Bartos [01:05:29]:
And it absolutely is an investment. Right. For our family. But it had. It has allowed more integration and more balance in my family's life. And I don't work as hard as I do to then not have any time to live because I'm doing domestic responsibilities. They need to get done. I think I might be a little bit like, ocd.

Teegan Bartos [01:05:51]:
Like, I like my color, my clothes color coordinated, and like my towels have to be folded like a certain way. I'm just very particular. And if those things aren't done right, I can't focus as much. And so I like cultivating a space that makes me feel inspired, so safe and energized. And so I invest in it.

Diana Alt [01:06:12]:
And I also believe house manager. I'm actually considering the house manager because I'm having surgery in a month from when we're recording this. I don't know when I'm dropping this. I'll let you know. But I am going to need some help. And I have a couple of friends that have said I can come and help you with things, but I don't know that I want the power dynamic of, like, my friend doing my laundry for a few weeks when I can't do that. Like, that just doesn't feel good to me.

Teegan Bartos [01:06:39]:
So I have a girlfriend who just had a tumor from here all the way down to down there, taken out. I don't remember what organ it was or whatever. Some kind of cancer.

Diana Alt [01:06:54]:
And.

Teegan Bartos [01:06:58]:
We provided a lot of support. A group of us cooking meals, cleaning, helping with showers and things like that. And everybody's got to do what they feel comfortable with. But good people like to help. And so if your friend is saying that they're willing to do something and you feel?

Diana Alt [01:07:19]:
I feel like I have things that I would rather have a friend help with and I have things you'd rather have someone independent help with. And so I'm trying to sort through some of that. But also when I started thinking about this, I'm like, why if I think about getting a house manager for that, like what the hell am I not getting one all the time? So okay, number three, what is something that you've changed your mind about recently, which could be like in the last couple years, it doesn't have to be yesterday. What have you changed your mind about?

Teegan Bartos [01:07:47]:
That I don't like recruiting. So I didn't like recruiting the way I used to have to recruit by the agencies. Sops. But I love pipelining and so I have strategic partnerships with organizations who have hard to fill roles and I love going out there and hunting for these purple unicorns and having conversations with them, figuring out what their motivators are on what it would be to make a move. And then when that strategic partner calls and says, hey Teagan, this role, I'm going to need somebody quickly now I've got a list of people and I, I love doing that. It's something about the hunts, the influence, the persuasion. I don't know what that says about my personality, but I am having so much frickin fun with it. And so that has changed, I think even since like the last time we talked about.

Teegan Bartos [01:08:50]:
Because when, when a client says, hey, I need, you know, seven DevOps engineers, okay, great, you know, I'm running a process, I'm screen, I'm checking boxes, that doesn't require me to think. But pipelining is a frickin blast.

Diana Alt [01:09:03]:
Yeah. To me what I'm hearing you say is that you want to be more relational.

Teegan Bartos [01:09:09]:
Oh yeah. Community is one of my favorite.

Diana Alt [01:09:11]:
Yeah, Transactional recruiting is not for you. But relational recruiting is. Last one is what is a common misperception people have about your work. So you could talk about coaching or recruiting, like whichever one you want to speak about.

Teegan Bartos [01:09:27]:
A common misperception about my work that it doesn't take a lot of time. As a resume writer, it takes a lot of time to write someone's resume. I personally do a 90 minute deep dive with each of my clients, find out about their background, then I do deep industry research, then I brainstorm different approaches on how to develop their unique value proposition and then from there scrutinize what, what accomplishments best position them for, what their target role is next, not just what they've done, but how to position them for what? And then designing the document. And so people are like, why don't, you know, you have a five to seven business day turnaround. You know, I can go to resume.com and get it in 24 hours and it's going to be the same design with the same copy that everybody else with your title has. And it's not going to position you advantageously for what comes next. So when, when people say that, I'm like, all right, have a great day. Yeah, you don't value say that.

Diana Alt [01:10:43]:
When I hear people say that, it's mind boggling. Because how damn long have you been.

Teegan Bartos [01:10:48]:
Working on your resume?

Diana Alt [01:10:49]:
Exactly. Or avoiding it because it's too stressful or applying with a piece of garbage. But when people say, you know, oh, it's so expensive what you're charging, I'm like, you know, I have it loosely pegged to. I kind of have tiered pricing per level. Yeah, it's loosely pegged in a way that works for me per the package to a percentage of average ote. So the value for a C COO is different than the value for a director of what? Project management. And you know, I'm like this. If you manage to triple your interviews, which is very possible, if you go from a mediocre resume to a highly done resume, like you just accelerated your search.

Diana Alt [01:11:41]:
You just, you. You see an roi it's hard to prove because no one knows when they would have gotten hired without it. But you gotta been on a job.

Teegan Bartos [01:11:51]:
Search for a year or six months and then gets their resume and LinkedIn updated and then all of a sudden has recruiters, you know, in their DMS overnight. Will, that's not a question.

Diana Alt [01:12:02]:
That's why. All right, well, your website is up on the screen. Is there. What is going on that people should be aware of? Is there anything you'd like to share other than your website, your LinkedIn that I've been popping up?

Teegan Bartos [01:12:17]:
Okay, so this summer I will be heavily recruiting for regional CFO account managers and senior procurement leaders.

Diana Alt [01:12:31]:
Like a senior manager and above for account management. What sort of industries?

Teegan Bartos [01:12:39]:
Commercial real estate.

Diana Alt [01:12:40]:
Commercial real estate. Okay. Well, thanks for that. I really appreciate it. Teagan, I love talking to you. I know.

Teegan Bartos [01:12:48]:
I'm gonna come down maybe not to do your laundry, but I would love.

Diana Alt [01:12:53]:
To hang out with you. We'll talk about when it makes sense to do that. So. Yeah, I can't wait to post this for the world. I can't wait to talk to you again sometime. And I hope everyone has a great day. Hey, are you sabotaging your job search without even realizing it? You might be I break down the most common job search mistakes and how to fix them in my free training at Job Search for so go grab it today. And that's it for this episode of Work Should Feel Good.

Diana Alt [01:13:28]:
If something made you laugh, think, cry, or just want to yell yes at your phone, send it to a friend, hit follow, hit subscribe, do all the things, and even better, leave a review if you've got a sec. I'm not going to tell you to give it five stars. You get to decide if I earn Work Should Feel Good. Let's make that your reality.