Diana Alt [00:00:04]:
Hey, Diana Alt here. And this is Work Should Feel Good, the podcast where your career growth meets your real life. Each week I share stories, strategies and mindset shifts to help you build a work life that works for you on your terms. Good morning everyone and welcome to Work Should Feel Good, the show where your career growth meets your real life. I'm your host, Diana Alt and today my guest Rebecca Sabagal and I will be chatting about what it takes to find joy after loss and to step into your calling for your career and your life. With over a decade of experience in organizations ranging from two employees to thousands of employees across umpteen industries, Rebecca brings a unique blend of operational expertise, strategy and mission alignment to everything that she does. She is known for her ability to bring clarity to the complex and excels at helping founders align strategy and their execution so they can scale with purpose. Rebecca is passionate about helping entrepreneurs make their businesses wildly successful on their own terms.

Diana Alt [00:01:16]:
Welcome to the show, Rebecca.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:01:19]:
Thank you, Diana. It's a pleasure to be here with you.

Diana Alt [00:01:22]:
I'm so glad to do this. I love a good excuse to talk to a friend, friend that I've known for quite some time. And you know, you sent me your bio. Everybody sends me their bio whenever they're going to be on the show. And I'm like, check, check, check. I have witnessed this in action. Check, check. So what I want to start with is what is the earliest that you remember in your life trying to work on creating operational excellence?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:01:54]:
Oh my gosh, so much fun. First of all, operational excellence. When I hear that word, I get like tingles in my spine because it like lights my fire.

Diana Alt [00:02:03]:
I saw somebody else recently say, this is gross. It's like a. It doesn't mean anything. And I'm like, talk to. I have a couple friends like you that are into it. But anyway, what's the earliest you can remember trying to create operational excellence?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:02:16]:
So I'm going to go way back to our mutual, excellent, like, launching pad for our career. As a Missouri S and T, I worked as a student assistant and international affairs and their Applied Language Institute. And I was brought in as somebody that could organize, coordinate, project, coordinate, that sort of thing. And I've always kind of been a doer. I come from a family of very big doers. Right? Like there are people that are going to get the job done. A big engineering family. Anyways, I was able to support and work with some of their international programs, most notably probably Celebration and Nations.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:02:59]:
So I was on the founding committee, which is now a Multi year, large scale community and campus event. I was on the founding committee for that. I came up with and pulled together and executed their international idol competition. And you know, I'm like 19 years old and having the time of my life. And I was like, I didn't have words for what I was doing, but I was like, I love bringing people from all over the world because we had, you know, close to probably over 100 nations represented at S and T. You know, students from all over the Middle East, Asia, South America, Europe, you name it, Africa. And just being able to work across all those different nations, plus with university faculty and the community, different members of the local royal community, municipality, and just being able to bring, you know, my, my point of view, my, my ideas. And then also not just having great ideas of what could really be impactful, but seeing how working with others, working through others, we're able to put together something that was much greater, more impactful than just the sum of its parts.

Diana Alt [00:04:06]:
And for what you feel at that young age, like you were a student assistant. Yeah. And then like 10 more seconds after you said that, you're like running an international program. And a lot of times people who are in student assistant roles are not given latitude.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:04:23]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:04:24]:
Do things like that. They're basically like, can you please fill out my expense report? Or you know, do this admin work. Answer the email box. What do you feel like made it possible for you to actually take kind of a more public role in all of that stuff?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:04:44]:
Well, I think it didn't happen right. Overnight. Right. Like, it was just like there were smaller projects that, you know, you, you do those and you do those with your whole heart and your whole mind and you're open to feedback. Right. From great leaders. And then the opportunities come and I'm going to give a shout out to the people who were there from the very beginning. So Bertie Morgan, Jeannie Hoofer, Stephan Mina, and there are others I'm sure that I'm missing.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:05:07]:
They were fundamental in my coaching and molding of my young mind and energy because I had a lot of energy and a lot of ideas, but sometimes getting that into a cohesive way that can be communicated and heard and contributed to by multiple people. Right. But I would say it was the timing, it was the willingness and the grit and the hard work to, to be resilient and to put my best foot, my best ideas forward, but also the opportunity and the platform to do that from the folks who came before me. And I will always, I still have, I would say I have the greatest gratitude and appreciation and love for those folks at Rolla and who. Who believed in me and instilled opportunity and confidence and care into my young mind and my path. And I would not be where I am today without them 100%.

Diana Alt [00:06:05]:
Yeah, I feel the same way. I was 15 years or something ahead of you, but I grew up. I mean, I grew up in Pacific Missouri, about as white, a little town that is barely a suburb of St. Louis. Like, we didn't even think of it as a suburb of St. Louis when I was a kid. I think people do now.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:06:25]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:06:26]:
But I come to this college and I jump face first into everything. And my dad, who graduated from there, then taught at community college for decades and then came back and was a lecturer after he retired, because he was very bad at being retired, used to say that I majored in extracurricular activities, but they put chemistry on my bachelor's degree in engineering, management on my master's degree. So what I use all day, every day is, yes, like the actual academic work taught me how to think and how to analyze better than anything else that I could have imagined. But it's all the leadership stuff and working with all the different kinds of people that are why I can do what I do now. And I think the same thing happened for you. So now you went into International affairs, which 100 countries or whatever?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:07:25]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:07:26]:
Did you have much exposure to very many other people of other nations and cultures before that? Because you're. We're in a town that it's like middle of Missouri. So on the one hand, you don't think of diversity, but it's a university town. But I don't know how much that you mixed or had very many kids from other cultures in your school. Like, how did that play out? What was your prior exposure to international students?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:07:58]:
You know, you hit on a really great point, Diana. And people have asked me that before, and I love to tell the origin story, kind of my origin story of loving international affairs, people from all over creeds and nations and backgrounds and thought processes, because it's really an essential part of who I am on a very natural level. It's not forced. It's not something that came to be because esg, you know, and. Or, you know, equity, inclusion, that sort of thing became to forefront about five years ago. I was, you know, this is something that's a part of my DNA as a human being since the time I was a young person. So to answer your question, to tell the story, we have to go back to my Life as a young person in Champaign Urbana, Illinois. I was about three or four years old.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:08:41]:
My dad was at the University of Illinois for a Ph.D. in civil engineering and, and my parents, who are well above their time and forth thinking and just who they are as people, intentionally chose to go to a church that was very diverse. It was about 50% Caucasian, 50% African American and African and multicultural and very big on missions. And so my exposure as a young person in church and also I lived in a neighborhood that had quite a bit of diversity. I was homeschooled. And so my majority of folks that I interacted with were people that did not look, think or talk like me, that came from different religions backgrounds as a privilege, it was such a privilege. And my parents early 90s were just incredible folks who did that. You know, it was just part of their DNA wasn't to do some quota or some to be impressive.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:09:32]:
It's just like who they were. And not only did they expose us to that, but they invited folks into their home for my dad's PhD program. Folks from Argentina, from Bangladesh, from all over the world, you know, Arab speaking countries, people that normally midwestern conservative folks don't necessarily get to see a lot of in small town Missouri. But my exposure was, I would say really atypical. It was more like somebody from a bigger city on the coast. And so I grew up thinking like when I went to public school in seventh grade in a very small midwestern American town, I was very frustrated and felt perplexed why it was so white like most of my friends were not and still aren't to this day, don't necessarily look or are from the same background as me because I, that's what I gravitate towards. So yeah, that's my origin story and it's continued to this day.

Diana Alt [00:10:25]:
Yeah, I think that's, that's so exciting and cool to hear that someone your age, we had that like at that three year old age you have that experience because, and especially in a church, like I love that your parents went and found you a church that was mission based and diverse because I feel like there, there are many churches like that, but there are also many churches that are basically a bunch of white people in a rock and roll band.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:10:54]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:10:55]:
At the beginning it's like a sh, it's like a show. And my ultimate thing, like I don't have a church right now because nobody knows what to do with me. Um, it's hard to church shop when you're single and 50, but I want to know what they're actually doing as ministry, not sending money, not doing missions, tourism, which, like, like, if that's the only exposure you can get, that's fine. I don't think it's bad for people to go on the 10 day mission trip to Cambodia to build a school or whatever. But what are you doing in your town? Yes. Like, is there, what are you, what are you doing in your town? Are you an echo chamber or are you reaching out into your community? So, wow, I didn't know we were going to go to church. But that's why these conversations are so freaking fun, right?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:11:48]:
They are so fun. I think on one more point before we move on is that Sunday is, I've heard, one of the most segregated parts of the American experience. Like Sunday is one of the most segregated still to this day parts of American culture, you know, and, and so I'm very thankful that we didn't have that. And so. Yeah, and kudos to my parents for being trailblazers. Not because it was the end thing to do, but because it was who they are and their values and they gave that to us.

Diana Alt [00:12:19]:
Suddenly I want to hang out with your parents.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:12:21]:
They're super cool.

Diana Alt [00:12:23]:
That happens sometimes. We should. So you have been a huge example to a ton of people for navigating loss without losing your joy for life. Like, I'm just gonna hit you over the head with that.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:12:39]:
Thank you.

Diana Alt [00:12:41]:
Because it's important to talk about. You and I are uniquely qualified for that. You're kind of a role model to me, actually.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:12:48]:
Thanks.

Diana Alt [00:12:48]:
But can you talk a little bit about your experience with loss? Whichever, whatever you're comfortable sharing. And even more importantly, how you clung to your identity as a joyful person that's going to basically produce good in the world.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:13:09]:
Oh, wow. That's a big one.

Diana Alt [00:13:14]:
Well, to work, feel good. We ask big questions here.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:13:19]:
Such a good and critical and poignant question. So Diana and I are particularly qualified because we're both brain cancer widows. Diana, I don't know I want to share too much of your story, but we both lost our husbands or our first husbands very early. Under the age of 40. Right. Andy was under 40.

Diana Alt [00:13:40]:
He was just turned 40. Okay.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:13:42]:
So under 50, you know, early, early, early young widows. And I lost my first husband, Gonzalo, to a glioblastoma, which is the most aggressive form of brain cancer, in 2023 while having, walking that journey with him through diagnosis with a two year old, two and a half year old and a newborn. And so during that journey, you know, he was Such a light in my life. He was an incredibly brilliant software engineer, a stable force in the world, a man of few words, but of action. You know, just kind beyond belief, but didn't need to say anything. Like people, he commanded respect and integrity wherever he was and whoever he was with. He was persistent and diligent and hard working and get stuff done kind of guy. Not a talk about it walk about.

Diana Alt [00:14:36]:
I didn't meet him very many times and I felt like I never heard from him because he was always doing something.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:14:43]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:14:43]:
So he's always taking care of, making sure things were going so.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:14:48]:
Yeah, so going through. I mean, he was incredible human and he was my dance partner, he was my international travel partner. We were navigating our early 20s, you know, home ownership for the first time. Careers, children, our first two kids. And we're just smacked upside down with this horrible brain cancer diagnosis. And you know, I think one of the things that is a hallmark, maybe it's just a personality thing, but also I think it's something people can learn like any skill you go to the gym for. Resilience is something that I think was bred into me by very strong, I would say Midwestern stock parents, you know, German of German descent, German English descent. And you know, they're folks that, you know, we descended from immigrants from the, you know, the old country.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:15:35]:
And they're folks that no matter what life hits them with, are going to get back up and pull yourself up by the bootstraps and, you know, never give up. And even if it's hard, you just keep on going and you trust in your faith and a higher power. And for me, it's God and you know, know it. You can't do it on your own strength. And I also have a very strong understanding. I think that the world is not perfect, that this is a temporary, short life that we are given gifts and opportunity. And it is my job to take those skills, gifts and opportunities and, and use it to be the best impact and service I can to the world and those around me. My calling is to love people well and do good and use those gifts that I've been given in my personal and professional life to try to do that.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:16:18]:
And I think part of it is understanding one, how you grieve, but through how you, how you most naturally express. And for me, I am, I like to share and give meaning to whatever we've been through to help others along their journey. Because I know for me, if I am going through something or I want to learn something, I know that somebody else has gone there before and I can go and find that roadmap from their journey. And so my life and light can be a beacon of hope, but also a roadmap and a journey to get from point A to point B to help folks who've been through a hard time. That's my honor and most humbling privilege.

Diana Alt [00:16:59]:
You're like a lighthouse. So keep people from crashing onto the rocks so that they can go and do what they needed to do. I. I think it's. You said a few things that I think are really important in that. Number one is that it's like this is a decision. Like you knew a calling.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:17:21]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:17:21]:
But that's not enough. You have to decide to do something with it. There's. You can have whatever download. You can make the decision that this is what you want to do. You can feel like from a higher power that this is the calling on your life. I don't care what you call it, you still have to decide to actually go about it. And one of the stories I tell people about decisions a lot is my husband Andy was also a brilliant software engineer like Gonzalez.

Diana Alt [00:17:47]:
Maybe they're hanging out, like, probably, who knows? But they both were very solid people. We married well, Both of us married well. And my husband was not around as long after diagnosis as years because he had issues. And then we found out. We found out that he just needed me in the hospital. And then we found out, oh, my gosh, there's stuff on his cerebellum. And then we had to have surgery, and then we got a diagnosis and he was dead, like 17 days after. After we got the diagnosis, we didn't even start no chemo, no nothing.

Diana Alt [00:18:28]:
So it was like, not unexpected since there was a brain cancer diagnosis, but it wasn't expected that fast. So it was a little bit of a whiplash situation. But I remember after he died, which happened in a hospital.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:18:46]:
I.

Diana Alt [00:18:47]:
They take you to the little room where they take people whenever their person died. And because they don't want you freaking out other people in the hospital and they want to give you some space. I was in that room and I was by myself for a very short period of time because my in laws had gone to like find my husband's sisters, I think. And then I was waiting for a friend to show up and I was kind of like in the corner on the floor in kind of a fetal position. And then I just had a moment where I made a decision to live a great life. I had no idea what that meant. Yeah, I don't know how good I'm doing, but still an aspirational. And it was a, it was a decision that I made in a very difficult time.

Diana Alt [00:19:36]:
So, yeah, that's kind of my thing. And now I just go try to live an awesome life to the degree that I can, which is not easy. You know, it's not easy. I have many blessings that make it easier for me in some ways than it would be for other people. But, yeah, it's not easy. That's hard stuff. So you, but you, you really went through quite a lot with a lot of grace while it was going on.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:20:07]:
Thank you. Thank you.

Diana Alt [00:20:08]:
So talk to us about what kept you sane and grounded when you were in the middle of this experience. And then after Gonzalo passed, if you don't mind.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:20:21]:
Yeah, of course. Oh, my goodness. I think sometimes, you know, of course you don't see everything on social media, right? I mean, we present our most polished self. So there are moments, I'm not going to hide that from people that I definitely had a hard time. This was a very long journey. For context, we had people living in and out of my house to help take care of my husband for over a year. So his family is from South America. In the South American culture, it's very hands on, family loving, very caregiving, very caring and very hospitable.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:20:53]:
And I would say that I have nothing but, looking back now, gratitude for how much that has grown me and the perspective Gonzalo's family and friends have given me about what it means to truly love, to serve, to sacrificially love and give, not for appearance, but because it is part of your DNA, what you do without no one's looking. And so. But during that time, I think, you know, I. There is a skill that I have learned and I think if everyone in the world could do this, and everyone has the capability to do this, but it's a very simple skill, and that is being able to pause and be mindful of the feelings and not vilify those feelings, but to be able to look at them, hold them, evaluate them, and say, is this reality or is this something I'm making up in my head? If it is reality, is it something I can do something about or is it something I just need to let go, like, let it pass. And feelings themselves are not wrong. It's what we choose to do with those feelings, for better or for worse, that is the wrong. Right? You can have a bunch of thoughts and a bunch of feelings all day long every day, but you Are not those thoughts and feelings. They, they can be visitors that, you.

Diana Alt [00:22:07]:
Know, love that idea of feelings as visitors. Especially because I remember a few years ago, I had started therapy at the end of 2020 because the pandemic was pandemic. I lived alone. And like, basically there's. There's apparently a psychological thing that about six months into any major crisis, people break down. We all collectively did it globally about a 60 day window. And so in my case, I was just like, I gotta get help here. I don't know if I'm gonna make it if I don't.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:22:43]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:22:43]:
And I actually, my therapist taught me how to name my feelings. Like, he literally sat. I paid the man fine. Like here, according to psychology, are the like, feelings or groupings of feelings. Like this is anger and this is what anger means. This is sadness. This is what sadness means. This is fear.

Diana Alt [00:23:04]:
This is what fear means. And he told me about two different kinds of fear so I could figure out which one I was feeling. And one of the most useful things he said is that especially anger, you can process that in about 90 seconds, if you will, instead of trying to shove it down.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:23:26]:
Mm.

Diana Alt [00:23:27]:
If you will just hear it and process it. Because the definition of anger is either wanting something that you're not getting or getting something that you didn't want. That's. That's what causes anger. So sitting and thinking about what is it that I wanted that I'm not getting or I'm getting that I don't want? And just naming that can sometimes help you go to a solution.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:23:54]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:23:55]:
Other times just like de. Escalates your nervous system and things like that. So I find that notion of feelings as visitors very important. I also think like contentment, not complacency.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:24:12]:
No different.

Diana Alt [00:24:13]:
Contentment is super underrated.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:24:16]:
Yeah. There's a saying, and I don't remember who says it, but it said it's from a stoic philosopher, I believe. And they say the richest man is the man who wants the least.

Diana Alt [00:24:26]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:24:27]:
And that is so key. And that getting to that point of surrender and being at peace and joy, but also holding, wanting to do things in my calling and being a vessel to do good in the world, Being at that point has just been a life changing thing for me because when we hold on to things like that are not healthy and not in alignment with that, it's a lot harder to be used to your greatest potential because your, your brain is full of other things. Fear, you know, pride, selfishness, a bunch of things that aren't going to help you as much people think they are, it's actually counterintuitive. You think if you hold on to those things, you're going to get farther to where you want.

Diana Alt [00:25:05]:
It's not the whole analogy of the person that, like, there's a vase and then there's like something that you want inside the vase, and if you put your hand in there, you can't get it out.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:25:17]:
Yeah. It's like a cat stuck, but take.

Diana Alt [00:25:21]:
Your hand out and then pour it out.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:25:22]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:25:23]:
Like if it's money or. Yeah, you know, stones or something like that. I think that's a powerful analogy. People try to hold on to things that are not theirs. One of my favorite things about the stoic, because you and I nerd out about stoicism, that's another thing that we, we have in common. One of my favorite things about all the stoics is that they wouldn't care that you don't remember who said that.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:25:47]:
Yes, exactly. They do not care. They.

Diana Alt [00:25:51]:
They're like, oh, you're doing the thing. Awesome. That's the whole idea. You're doing the thing.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:25:56]:
So it's not about me. Right. Like, that's the whole, like, attitude. It's not about me. It's about the gift and the calling.

Diana Alt [00:26:05]:
Yeah. Things that come to mind when I. Well, what are some of your other favorite kind of stoic principles? Thoughts? Quotes? Let's talk about that for a minute.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:26:15]:
Yeah. There's two big ones, or I think anyone. Most people who are familiar with stoicism, which is just incredible, is letting go of what you can't control. So surrender. It's something that is also a big part of Christianity. I refer myself as a Christian Stoic, Christian being foundation. And then stoic is kind of a part of how I navigate the world. So letting go what you can't control and.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:26:39]:
And then the second component, which is extreme ownership of how you show up and your choices you make in the world. And for me, that even deeper, if you scratch a layer deeper, is respect. So respect of God, respect of others, respect of self. From the way I speak, eat, walk, work, interact, hold myself accountable in relationships and accountable in life.

Diana Alt [00:27:04]:
That tiring, though? Like, that's one of the things that I think people say is, like, that doesn't sound fun. Yeah. At times I think that it's not fun to not do that either.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:27:17]:
No. Well, yeah. I mean, there's another saying is pick your heart right. And you can use it in the context of everything. Right. Like if. If this is something everyone can probably understand. Relate.

Diana Alt [00:27:28]:
You can.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:27:29]:
It's hard to be unhealthy and like, be your body inflamed because you're eating in a destructive way versus, you know, going to the gym and having self control with the portions and the types of food you eat. Not that you're over, you know, you're. You're crazy about it, but you can pick your heart. Right. It's. It's hard to be healthy and have healthy habits, but it's also hard to be unhealthy. So the path might feel easier or harder at first, but the outcomes are flipped. If you choose the easy path, the outcome is hard.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:28:00]:
If you choose the. The opposite, the opposite is true.

Diana Alt [00:28:04]:
That's. That's really powerful. And I've been thinking about that a lot because when I first started reading stoicism, which was in like 2018, I think, 2018, 2019, I take a trip through the daily stoic meditation journal every single year. Plus I read other things. But there was one thing I really struggled with at first, and that is the idea of, like, when you dig further into the idea of what you can control and can't control, usually you think about that being yourself, like before you, before you study it.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:28:42]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:28:43]:
You think about, well, anything that's kind of inside me, I can control.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:28:48]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:28:49]:
But there's a very distinct thing that I've learned and I think is powerful, that you can only control your reasoned choice. And so the brain versus the body was what was really interesting to me because there's so much narrative around, well, you know, if you're overweight, you're lazy, or you do this, or, you know, you didn't choose to try to be healthy. Right. Which is true for some people, but not for other people. But when I read something that said, think about it this way, like, you could do everything right, but you could get cancer, or you could do everything right and you could get hit by a bus or whatever, whatever that is, it made it much clearer. And then it took me a little while longer. I struggled with. I made it about the brain for a while and decisions and stuff, which isn't wrong.

Diana Alt [00:29:46]:
But I was like, well, what about people that have some sort of mental impairment? Like, if they get dementia, like, what is going on with them and that what happens with them is there's a limited ability to have recent choice. It's not like if they're doing weird stuff due to a dementia condition or something similar. It's not like they're doing wrong. Yeah, of course, they literally are not in that time frame, whether it's for five minutes or five years, they're not necessarily able to make the reason choices. Or maybe it's only on very small things. I'm gonna have the green jello, not the yellow jello.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:30:27]:
Yeah, of course.

Diana Alt [00:30:29]:
For the person in the dementia ward. So.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:30:32]:
No, of course. And I think everybody's situation is different. You know, there's. You know, this is not meant to be a blanket statement. There's nuance and exceptions to everything. Right.

Diana Alt [00:30:43]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:30:43]:
But this is just what I found in my own personal life. And it's not meant as a condemnation or criticism of anyone. It's just sharing. I think what has worked for me in my journey, and I. I have been there, is not about being perfect, about having grace for yourself and others. And just, I think to anybody, no matter where they're at and whether they're struggling, I would just want to come alongside them and give them a hug if I could, and just say, I'm your cheerleader. I want you to do well. I want you to succeed on your terms.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:31:10]:
What does that look like for you?

Diana Alt [00:31:12]:
You are a good cheerleader. One of my friends, Justin Shank, has a model that is like the five people that you need.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:31:21]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:31:22]:
And it's four or five. I think it's five. It's been a while since I heard him talk about this. One of them is cheerleader. Another one is bruiser. So you need someone that'll kind of like rough you up and hold you accountable. Then like a mentor. I think another one was a softie.

Diana Alt [00:31:40]:
And then like a coach. It's. It's. That's roughly what it is. So you fit beautifully in that cheerleader model, but without being with. It's important, I think, to understand that cheerleader doesn't mean bobblehead. I think a lot. I think a lot of people mistake that.

Diana Alt [00:32:00]:
I can cheer for you and encourage you, but I also can point out to you that you're not serving your own interests, which is an important balance. And I also. It's important to know the role that you're supposed to play with each person, too.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:32:17]:
Absolutely. I think it's also understanding the intuitive knowledge and wisdom of where are people at and what are they going to hear? Are you the right. Is it the right message and are you the right messenger? Because you can have the right message, but if you're not the right messenger for that, where that. And it's not the right time, and that person's heart and head's not in the right place, it's very hard to get that message across.

Diana Alt [00:32:41]:
That is a great point. I think it's really important for business owners in particular, or anybody that's trying to have a type of influence that they're not used to having. If you've just gotten promoted or switched jobs or something major like that, and you're in new waters, it's important to understand that you're not always going to be right. You're not always going to be the right person to deliver something that's okay and to use the people around you to try to get things done. Most of I feel like most of the struggles I've ever had at work have been because of ego. Sometimes my ego, sometimes somebody else's ego. But my guidance when I work with executives, my executive coaching clients, is to really think about getting everybody on the same side of a problem instead of trying to be Rebecca versus Diana or whatnot.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:33:43]:
Yeah, I think it's very easy. And this is what I found working with lots of diverse teams and clients and whatnot is that it's very easy, especially when things are hard, to take things personally and not and focus on the person or the way that things are said that you don't like versus the common ground, which is the problem or the solution. We're trying to build the product. We're trying to launch the thing that we all care about that unites us. And it is so easy to get distracted and frustrated as a human. But you know, part of your. Your job, like especially in my role and I think a lot of yours as a coach is to help people bring people back to the foundational truth and what brings us together.

Diana Alt [00:34:22]:
The better. The better you are at not having too much of a stake in what people decide. The, the better off you are. So that's why I think consultants are actually important. A lot of people kind of make fun of consultants like, oh, they're high dollar and we didn't need that. But sometimes you just need someone that doesn't have a vested interest in what the quarterly earnings are going to be.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:34:47]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:34:47]:
Walk in and help you see things and help you move in the direction you say you want to move.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:34:54]:
I 100% agree with that. In fact, I was asked to be a part of a board for something organization and I purposely turned it down because I wanted to keep the role that I have, which is a neutral third party because I believe that's where I'm most powerful. What they need, they don't need another ingrained team member that, you know that it. I I just feel like I'm more my useful and more helpful to the organization in that third party seat.

Diana Alt [00:35:22]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:35:23]:
Neutral seat.

Diana Alt [00:35:24]:
I. I've never been a person that really sought after very long tenure in anything. So the longest I ever worked anywhere was five years.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:35:40]:
No.

Diana Alt [00:35:40]:
Before this job. I've now been full time in my business for almost six years. Yeah. Right.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:35:48]:
I'm so proud of you. I remember when you jumped and did the big, big leap and so excited for you and what you've gone so far.

Diana Alt [00:35:56]:
That was quite a ride. And it was like I was a little bit kicked out of the nest. It was like being a baby bird kicked out of the nest, only I did the kicking. You should turn around and talk about strategy. Like your, your consulting business, which we're going to talk about for a little while, is centered around helping people connect strategy and execution and operate well. And I want to first ask you, what do people get wrong in their understanding about strategy in general? Because everyone loves to throw the word strategy around.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:36:35]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:36:36]:
But I don't know that very many people actually know what the heck it means.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:36:41]:
It's about zooming out to the thousand foot or more view and understanding holistically is the current state and then also the future state. Do you want to go too? And then understanding and getting everyone aligned around that and then developing a plan that aligns and connects all pieces that your plan should flow across everything. But you should also understand where every person, every function, every piece of the puzzle, the customer journey, the different functions, all how it interplays and who has what roles so you can execute that strategy.

Diana Alt [00:37:14]:
Yeah. So I like that you said both answers but one thing that I hear people talk about a lot is they'll say strategy, strategy, strategy, but really it's projects.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:37:26]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:37:27]:
There's a difference between a giant project.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:37:29]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:37:30]:
And a strategy. So the part that you said strategy is let's figure out the vision, the broad strokes of how we're going to get there and you fill in underneath with how you're going to actually get that done. I think is critically important. One of the reasons that I have been thinking about this a lot the last few years is the last company that I was at, well, actually it goes back to strengths finders and one of my job search coaching clients from 29th, 2020, roughly. But I had worked with her at my last job. So this client and I had been working through her cliftonstrengths because we were trying to identify some additional roles or things about environments that would be important et CETERA and one day she just looked at me and said, look, we've climbed all over mine. Like, can I see yours? Which I don't have a problem showing people. But I'd never really done it up to that point.

Diana Alt [00:38:28]:
So I went back and revisited mine for the first time in a while and I had a huge light bulb about why I was miserable at the end at my job, I had had one boss who really understood how to work with me, another one that didn't. And the way that this enlightenment came up for me was that I opened up my CliftonStrengths34 report. If anybody ever wants to do this, like, email me. We can work on CliftonStrengths together. But there's these four domains of talents within CliftonStrengths. Strategic thinking, relationship building, influence and execution. And my. Even without having this, you know, as a tool we officially used on our team and things like that, I had a boss that understood that I was a strategic thinker.

Diana Alt [00:39:21]:
So he leveraged that well. Then he got moved to another department, he got promoted and moved to a different business unit. And suddenly I was working for people that did not understand that about me and they didn't care. Well, in my top 10 strengths, six. Six out of 10 are strategic thinking. Zero out of 10 are in the execution domain. I am a fully functional human, so yes, I can execute. But it was just a picture on a piece of paper of two things.

Diana Alt [00:39:51]:
Number one, why I needed to leave because the leaders did not care and they thought that you had to earn the right to work on strategy, which is a rant I'll get to in a minute. The other thing is I understood why my website wasn't done because I have the ability to build a website like I have. I'm not great at it, but I have the technical chops to put up a simple website. And I kept not doing and not doing it, but I also didn't feel good about it because in my head, everything had to tie together if people wanted to hire me. They see my LinkedIn, they see that looks credible and I just couldn't get it done. And it's because I needed to hire somebody.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:40:29]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:40:30]:
So I probably would not have a business if that client hadn't said, well, I want to see yours. What. What are your thoughts? Have you observed that same thing, that people want you to earn the right to go from doing tactical stuff to using your strategic brain?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:40:53]:
Yeah, I think. I think every culture and people have a very. Especially as you work with more senior leaders, they have A very concrete view of how they feel organizations and people should operate and how you should operate within that culture and the organization.

Diana Alt [00:41:08]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:41:09]:
One of the reasons I loved moving from a big corporation to a startup and smaller organizations and I appreciate all different sizes organizations but as you go down in size you tend to have more freedom and flexibility about how to operate. And I enjoy that immensely because I like, I would say I enjoy 50, 50. I think I started my career really, really strong as a, as an executor, just get stuff done that the leaders want, make them happy. But then as I've gone along and as I've learned it's building the why, understanding the why and then getting people aligned to drive towards that why and that vision, that strategic thinking, you know, are we doing things in the most efficient, smart way possible to get the thing done that needs to get done?

Diana Alt [00:41:57]:
Could not agree more. I do think that one thing that leaders have to be very conscious of, they need to pay attention to the people that are showing sparks of an aptitude for strategic thinking though.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:42:11]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:42:12]:
Because if you, if you take someone that has a brain like that and then expect them to spend 3, 5, 10 years doing only execution, never listening to their ideas for they're not going to perform well if you have the idea that they have to earn the right to do anything that's strategic, they will never earn the right because you've put them, you've basically taken a fish and tried to tell it to climb a tree.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:42:44]:
Yeah. And that's really, you're really shooting yourself in the foot at that point. Because when you're a good leader, especially with people, part of your job as that leader is to give folks an opportunity to one use the skills but also refine their skills. Now on the, on the flip side, you do have to run a business. And when you're running a business and you're growing, you should be at a point where everyone's being a little bit stretched, especially as a smaller to medium sized business because you don't want to over get out over your skis on how much you kind you can afford. Right. Because you won't be able to pay people you don't want to have problems with having, having capital. And so sometimes we all, especially as we're going, we all have to do things we don't particularly love and are not good at.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:43:26]:
For me, I cannot wait for the day that I can outsource some of the deep, deep data analysis and financial modeling type work that I might do for my business. And you know capital strategy. Can I do it? Yes. Am I slow and do I enjoy it? No. Right. I mean I'm slower. And do I. I'm slower.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:43:41]:
Yes. And I don't really enjoy it. Even though it's something that, you know, it feels like point teeth for me, lead generation sales, talking to folks doing the consulting work itself feels like heaven. Right. So like as soon as I can, I would find folks to do the things that I know I need to have to grow the business like accounting and fpa, but keep stuff I love.

Diana Alt [00:44:01]:
I think that, I think that really is very applicable for people that are building a business or leading a smaller business. What I would say to people who are managers and executives in more established larger comp. Larger companies, like they aren't starting the thing themselves or one of the first five employees is when it takes a remarkably small amount of leveraging someone's strategic brain when they're earlier in their career to keep them engaged on the job. So if you have someone that is in a doer role, like let's say we're talking about someone that's a marketing coordinator.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:44:45]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:44:47]:
Just the act of letting them sit in meetings where marketing strategy is discussed.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:44:54]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:44:54]:
A few times a month can make them number one better at understanding what's at stake for their marketing coordinator job.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:45:04]:
For sure.

Diana Alt [00:45:05]:
They're, they're working at a thousand feet and they're wishing they understood 30,000ft. That gives them a view into also just gives them a break from some that they might be good at but that's never going to be their zone of genius. So cool.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:45:22]:
I think, I think that's really, really early, really good. I think also, you know, warning signs might be somebody that seems to be struggling, performing performance wise and you know, before you throw out the baby with the bath water, I think it's good to have a conversation as to why and what does that, what does that person want to do and building that trust and relationship where you can actually have real conversations. Not sugarcoating it and saying you're doing a great job when things are going wrong, but saying hey, I'm, you know, this is what I'm seeing. Like how are you feeling about the work? And really trying to give people a chance to shine and put them in the right roles and opportunities and projects to the best of your ability. Because when people are thriving and they love coming to work, your productivity and your return on investment is going to skyrocket and you as a leader will get ac, you know, rewarded and I think people will see you as a fantastic person to work with. Because as you know, Diana, I'm sure people say this is that they don't leave jobs, they leave bad managers or bad people.

Diana Alt [00:46:18]:
I disagree with that. That's a broad stroke that people like to say. And I think that that quote is only valuable from the extent of if you're the manager, being cognizant that extra time spent on the relationship and understanding of your team can prevent unwanted attrition.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:46:40]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:46:41]:
But people do leave jobs. They do. I've talked to people all the time that leave. They struggle with it. Sometimes they take a very long time because they really need like a unicorn job. But I've worked with multiple people over the years where the true main problem is that they just have gotten bored with the work that they're doing full stop. And especially sometimes they're in smaller organizations and there's just no career path. You have to wait seven years for somebody to retire before you can do something else.

Diana Alt [00:47:16]:
So it's, it's not as simple as saying people don't leave jobs, they leave bad managers. I have a four pillar model that I call the aligned cornerstones. The four cornerstones of an aligned career and the basically real quick, the four things are the right work. Things that you enjoy, you can find flow. It's an appropriate level of challenge. You get to develop the things you know, develop skills that you're interested in and you minimize the amount of stuff you hate. Not eliminate, but minimize. Right.

Diana Alt [00:47:49]:
Leaders gets into what we were talking about, but it's about both your boss and the strategic direction of the company. You can love your supervisor, but if you're working for Blockbuster in 2005, that's not going to work. Yeah. Then there's right environment which is all the things that make your work and your life work together. So that's and paid correctly. That's the ability to have the time and location flexibility. Can I go to my kids soccer game? Can I take the vacation, the three week vacation to India? All that kind of stuff. And then finally is culture, which I call values in action.

Diana Alt [00:48:27]:
So are you actually doing what you say the company values or is it just crap on the front web page? Any of those, if they are sufficiently deficient, can be a cause of someone leaving.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:48:41]:
Oh yeah.

Diana Alt [00:48:42]:
People that I put pay under environment. And I've seen people that truly were heartbroken because the only thing that they needed is to make more money to live their life.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:48:53]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:48:53]:
Of course they'll leave companies that they enjoyed solely over money.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:48:58]:
So I think I Need to clarify. Yes. I think there's multiple reasons that somebody could leave a job. I think just for my what I've heard a lot of people say the thing that in myself personally the things that have got me out the door quickest has been bad people fit.

Diana Alt [00:49:12]:
That's I could see that there's a.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:49:14]:
Lot of reasons and a lot of you know, combination of maybe reasons why but I think the I should have clarified the fastest and most powerful thing I've seen people leave and myself has been pad people fit.

Diana Alt [00:49:24]:
I think that makes sense because the number one reason people leave is actually lack they don't see the opportunity for career growth. Like I've seen survey after survey that says that but that's a slower burn.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:49:37]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:49:37]:
Because you can go through a cycle or two of like well not this year but next year or talk to me in six months about the promotion like that can take a little while but if you were like me and you had probably one of your like one of my top two favorite bosses ever that I worked for and I handled a lot of shit on that job because I like the boss. Yeah of course it's gone and then suddenly there's this person that doesn't understand me and doesn't understand what my domain is even about very well. That got me out the door pretty.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:50:14]:
Agreed.

Diana Alt [00:50:15]:
Talk a little bit about what you're doing now. So yeah, finally like 50 minutes in we're getting into it but I think the journey is really important for people. What are you doing now that you've stepped into your calling? What is that?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:50:34]:
Well, about two weeks ago I really more firmly relaunched my firm Performance Improvement Consultants. I am really looking at ways to add what I would almost call miracle grow to folks's businesses. So I am taking what you know, somebody that is a great person, they got a great idea, are showing they're building some traction but they're running into roadblocks And I use my vast experience and track record and tools in my toolbox to come alongside them and develop a plan to get them for the next stage. Now this can be somebody that's launching their own firm established and have 10 to 50 employees. So I'm usually I would say my Sweet spot is 50 employees and under organizations wise that's why I really like to work in not that I can't do more but that's why I'm finding a lot of my experience and skills and especially my love for more of a startup smaller environment really naturally fit and align to come and work in Very close proximity with the founder or head leadership team.

Diana Alt [00:51:39]:
My thing that I like to say is my preference when doing B2B work because most of my work right now is B2C. My preference when doing B2B work is that I want to talk to the people that are writing the checks.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:51:51]:
Yes. Yeah, for sure.

Diana Alt [00:51:53]:
So when, you know, I'm not like McKinsey. So I'm not. But I'm not in, I'm not in a position where you would have me come into a large organization like Oracle or you know, some of these other Anheuser Busch or Eny or whatever. You wouldn't have me come in there and be working at the C suite level where the people are making the decisions and writing the checks. I would end up working with some VP in L& D or, or whatever on some coaching or workshops and whatnot. And I'd be at the point where you have to wait for the board meeting in six weeks to decide if they're going to approve the sow with the Whatever, whatever. I don't want that I got. So this week I did a consulting, a short consulting deal.

Diana Alt [00:52:50]:
It's like new manager coaching for engagement for somebody. I sold it in less than like 24 hours, you know, like yeah, it's, it's four figure deal. I'm really excited to work with the person the company. I wasn't working with a C suite, but I was working with somebody that can make a decision fast. That was all that I needed. And I love when it is the visionary as well.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:53:16]:
So yeah, I definitely love the visionary group. I do think as my business grows and evolves and the organization grows, I think my client base will grow too. And that's the way I envision it. This is an evergreen organization. This is something that's going to last hopefully decades. And I want to grow with my clients. So like if I'm.

Diana Alt [00:53:36]:
All businesses should regard themselves as evergreen and changing. That's how you manage to keep going. So when you go into a company, what is an example of what you might hear from one of these company leaders?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:53:53]:
We were having trouble. Go ahead, sorry.

Diana Alt [00:53:56]:
They're expressing interest in bringing you in or right after you've launched. Engagement. Yeah.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:54:03]:
So a lot of times folks are looking at growth, right? Because earlier stage under 50 employees, you're very much in growth and so the size of where you are and where you are in your size journey also reflects what you need. So right now a lot of under 50 employees at companies is growth. So find the ideal client pro client Profile, product, market fit. How do we, you know, from. That's from like the sales and product side now, you know, you be looking at, you know, if you're building out a team, do we have the right people in the right seats at the right time? Are you ordering, you know, and, and then also cash. Like, are you spending the right money on the things that absolutely bring that the best return on investment? Because we only have this much. So those are the kind of things that you would probably see a lot of as you go further down the journey. You have to build the organization to the point where, okay, we've got, we're busting at the seams of clients now.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:54:56]:
We get to have better assistance processes and tools to make sure we go to that next level. Let's not slow down on lead generation and sales pipeline lead, but let's intentionally figure out how we're going to scale up so we can 10x our ability to hold those clients. You kind of repeat that cycle and you upscale all your tools and your folks and your organizational capability and you figure out what works for your clients and also your organization. It's not cookie cutter. It's very much a science. Yeah.

Diana Alt [00:55:22]:
And it's, it's very interesting that way. It's true consulting, like advisory consulting in its best form. What you're describing, one of the, one of the things that I like about it, I like about what you're describing is the different stages of things.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:55:40]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:55:41]:
Now, one thing I wanted to ask you is you're using a lot of language that is commonly heard in tech. So most people in other industries do not talk about 10xing anything because it doesn't make sense. Like a plumber is not going to try to 10x fast the way a SaaS startup, which might actually be trying to a hundred X. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Are you specializing in working in the tech sector?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:56:07]:
I am open to where I, I would say I'm open to working where folks could use me and find that my skills would be useful. But I think more specifically there is a very good match in the tech sector, but also like professional services firms, marketing firms, accounting firms, and I would say definitely tech, like startup firms as well. Those are like. And also potentially other consultant firms that are not, you know, in my client space. Those are really, I think, where there's a lot of immediate value that I can provide. I really enjoy working with technical people. I went to Rolla. My family's a bunch of engineers.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:56:45]:
My late husband was an engineer. I've worked with engineering predominant Firms and teams most of my life. So there's a natural affinity, I think for that brain type and folks. But I've worked across professional services, accounting, sas, defense finance. I have a long standing egg as an advisor for a boutique private equity firm which I absolutely love and I have nothing but appreciation for what I've learned and worked with them there. So I work across multiple industries and multiple different team sizes. But I would say, like the thing is I, I, I know that I know what I. Where I've had success and where I enjoy working.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:57:28]:
But I don't have many doubts that if I found a great person or a great team that had a product or service I believed in and they felt like who I was and what I brought to the table aligns with what they needed, we're going to find success because I will not quit until we do.

Diana Alt [00:57:43]:
It's one of those, it's really whenever you have that ability to consult so broadly and you have an organization that is brand new effectively because you have to be clear and it can be hard to be clear when you're early on. So yeah, I know you'll get there. It's in your head.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:58:03]:
Yes, we're working through that stall. I mean I'm scaling and growing my.

Diana Alt [00:58:06]:
Own for a long time and I'm still iterating on that. So I'm gonna do a quick. Oh, I have one more question I jotted down.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:58:16]:
Yes.

Diana Alt [00:58:17]:
What do you feel like is the biggest obstacle to these. You know, let's, let's say It's a under 50 employees organization that you would want to work with. What is their biggest obstacle to that aligned business that you want to help them create?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:58:37]:
I would say you need to have people, prioritization, money and time all in alignment because you have to make sure you don't. And having that out of out of sync.

Diana Alt [00:58:48]:
Which one do you find is most commonly out of whack?

Rebecca Sabogal [00:58:53]:
I mean, I've seen it all over the board and it depends on the person. Right?

Diana Alt [00:58:58]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:59:00]:
I'm thinking, I think most commonly across every industry, it's making sure that everybody is crystal clear on where you're going at that exact moment.

Diana Alt [00:59:12]:
Yeah. So it is having the vision be clear which to me is an. In a company of 50, that is a people problem, in my opinion. Well, company of 50,000, there's processes that go into place to radiate that stuff out more so than in the smaller orgs.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:59:32]:
One, there's a really great book that I love. It's called Essentialism. I'm gonna give it to y'. All.

Diana Alt [00:59:37]:
I love it.

Rebecca Sabogal [00:59:39]:
The best book I've ever read that changed my life professionally. It's about the disciplined pursuit of. And so the thing is, my goal as the organizational leader or advisor would be can I talk to every single person in the organization and they tell me the number one thing that we're working on as an organization and how do what. How does what I do every day support that?

Diana Alt [01:00:03]:
Cool.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:03]:
That's like, amazing.

Diana Alt [01:00:05]:
Note to switch to our next thing. We're going to do a little bit of a lightning round that may or may not actually turn out to be a lightning round. And then I want to give you an opportunity to tell people how to find you what cool things are going on right now. So number one, what is the worst piece of career advice you have ever received?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:28]:
Just be content.

Diana Alt [01:00:29]:
Oh, man. Yes. That makes me crazy. That works for some people.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:35]:
It does. I mean, but that's not me.

Diana Alt [01:00:36]:
It doesn't work for me.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:37]:
No.

Diana Alt [01:00:39]:
What is a personal habit that's helped you be successful?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:43]:
Knowing exactly the most important things I have to get done that day and doing them.

Diana Alt [01:00:48]:
How many things do you allow to be on that most important list?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:52]:
It depends on size and scope.

Diana Alt [01:00:54]:
Okay.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:00:55]:
Less than five. More likely three. But it also depends on how big. I would say less than three.

Diana Alt [01:01:00]:
Okay, cool. What is something you've changed your mind about recently?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:01:06]:
The Midwest.

Diana Alt [01:01:07]:
Oh, tell me more. Tell me more.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:01:12]:
I think that I had a bit of frustration. I think I always felt very transparently that I was a person that somehow was supposed to live like on a coast in a bigger city, but life just never went that way. And I felt like people like, I felt like more constrained about, you know, what are the people? What are the people? Where are the people that are doing the big visionary type things in St. Louis Mission, Missouri. And I have been pleasantly surprised by digging into the local VC and like the different entrepreneurials and the like the business owners here have been very, very impressed with what's going on locally. And I think I unfairly judged my hometown and upbringing in the value of roots.

Diana Alt [01:01:51]:
I. I remember when you were like doing that little world tour for a while a couple of years ago because you were trying to. You were actually going and living places. I was few weeks at a time to try to figure out. And then you turned around and came home.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:02:05]:
I did. I met a wonderful man who became my second husband who love. Love him very much. And he was not expected. He does. We needed each other and he has taught and helped me Grow and heal through a lot of things. I think he could say the same and he was, I needed to come home to build my life with him and be. Have a great place for my kids.

Diana Alt [01:02:27]:
Yeah, I thought that that was a really interesting exercise you were going through. To me, you are the world traveling Midwestern girl. That's how I thought of you. Now your opinion of you matters more than my opinion of you though. What is a common misconception people have about the type of work you do as an advisory consultant?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:02:53]:
That we are overpaid money wasters.

Diana Alt [01:02:58]:
So what makes that not true?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:03:00]:
Because I think the ones that actually can demonstrate value, measure it and like have something that somebody can say like this person helped me organize this. We're able to be this much more efficient, we were able to grow this many more clients, we've improved our customer retention rate, etc. Like can point to specific outcomes that the work that I've done has led to. Then you're worth it. Right. And I always try to tie my work to specific outcomes to measurable metrics. Every plan comes with metrics and, and making sure that that customer gets way more value out of their interaction with me than I ever cost them. Yeah, that's my goal for myself thing.

Diana Alt [01:03:41]:
To try to think about the work that I do, especially my B2C work. It can be pretty hard and people want to say like how do I know I'm going to get an ROI from you? And it's really the wrong like for what I do. It is oftentimes the wrong question. Yeah, I have plenty of examples where I can point to a positive dollars and cents roi. But when you're trying to find alignment, sometimes the payoff is not dollars and cents or metrics. So yes, it can be a really challenge. You have to do qualitative and quantitative things so.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:04:20]:
Oh, you're a hundred percent correct. I think also though sometimes you can just be a sounding board for that leader and visor. They don't, I mean some of my engagements could be look like that. Right. Like they just need, you know, maybe their budget isn't huge and they don't need somebody to be down and in the like execution of the work or spending a ton of time, but they just want somebody to have send a text or a call. What do you think about this? I'm thinking about that. I think this is great. Have you thought about that? You might want to consider this.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:04:44]:
You know, you told me this is where you want to go and being available as a call, a friend that's the service I offer too.

Diana Alt [01:04:51]:
That phone a friend thing is a big deal.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:04:53]:
Yeah.

Diana Alt [01:04:54]:
And I, I include it with coaching programs. I don't understand. It doesn't happen as much anymore. But when I first started coaching, there were a lot of people that were operating under you get me for 50 minutes usually on the phone in 2014 when I started doing this or on Skype, RIP Skype. And that was it. Like you couldn't get any other access. And I don't think that that, I don't think that that makes sense. I enjoy being a thinking partner to people and reflecting back and it's, that's, that's the when I do B2B engagements, I really enjoy that.

Diana Alt [01:05:30]:
Well, we are just about done. I want to give you an opportunity to let people know how they can get in touch with you. Are there any special things this this is being recorded in at the end of May. I don't know exactly when I'm going to post this. My life is in disarray. But what do you want people to know about? How would you want them to get a hold of you?

Rebecca Sabogal [01:05:55]:
Sure. Yeah. So you can always go to my website. It's up there on the screen. You can email me at Rebecca with two C's at performance improvement consultants.com Local things you might be want to be aware of if you're in the St. Louis area. I am offering as of this time a limited couple hours consulting for those who are impacted by the St. Louis tornadoes.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:06:17]:
Giving a couple sessions to help businesses get back on their feet because while it is May and you may not post this till June or July, August impact from a disaster like that last month. So I want to be available to folks in the in the area to be a resource, a phone, a friend possible on and I am going to be speaking at a panel this Tuesday with the International Institute of Business analysts here in St. Louis. But again that's in a couple days may not be you know, this may not be live then But I've also had the opportunity of participating in an anthology called Threads of Gold and it's about book of a collection of stories from authors who've been through severe grief incidents and experience loss. And it's basically our collection of stories of what we would tell a friend on the couch about what you know, tools or helpful things that we have taken away from our experience and so more about I think some of the stuff we talked earlier if you want to dive in a little bit more my journey through grief and things I've learned about the feelings and letting things go and how to, how to work through that. Might want to check this out. It's available on Amazon. I also can provide copies to folks.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:07:27]:
It's called Threads of Gold and you can find that on Amazon.

Diana Alt [01:07:29]:
Awesome. Send me a, send me a link to that. I'll put it in the show notes on YouTube for that.

Rebecca Sabogal [01:07:36]:
Absolutely. I will send that to you.

Diana Alt [01:07:38]:
Rebecca, this has been a pleasure. Always great to catch up with somebody whether we're recording it for the rest of the world or not. Wish you the best of luck. I was really excited to hear that you had launched your consulting firm. Immediately knew that I wanted to talk to you about that. So thank you very much and I hope everyone has a great day. Hey there. Do you ever find yourself wondering, is it finally time to walk away from this job? You might want to go over and check out my free mini video [email protected] it's going to walk you through the four pillars of an aligned career and let you know whether it's time to start making your move.

Diana Alt [01:08:20]:
That's isittimetowalk.com and that's it for this episode of Work should feel good. If something made you laugh, think, cry, or just want to yell yes at your phone, send it to a friend. Hit, follow, hit, subscribe, do all the things. And even better, leave a review if you've got a sec. I'm not going to tell you to give it five stars. You get to decide if I earned them. Work should feel good. Let's make that your reality.